Al and Dental school research
By AGD (Agd) on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 10:45 pm:
Well, it's all getting very interesting. I asked Gary Winfrey if he could be more specific about the date of Alan's returning to California from Ferris U.... and the answer that came back astonished me, as it runs completely counter to perceived Beach Boys history. And there's documentary proof. I'll let Gary tell the story in his own words:
"All this BB history has been a lot of fun for me and has brought back memories that I had forgotten for over forty years.
During the past several days I have been e-mailing and phoning my brother Don about his memories. One of the things that we talked about was when I loaned Al $105.00 dollars. (A hundred 1962 dollars is worth almost a thousand 2002 dollars.) Don scanned and e-mailed the note to me.
Here's the story. I was living at my parent's house in Hawthorne, CA and the date was Monday Aug 16 1962 (my emphasis - AGD) at about 12:00 pm and we was awakened (Don and I shared a bedroom) by a rapping on our bedroom window. It was Al Jardine and Dennis Wilson. Al wanted to borrow some money (I think he wanted to buy a car, but I am not positive on this point). He said he would pay me back on Friday when he received his paycheck. I was willing to slide the money out the window and go back to sleep. However during all the commotion we woke my parents and my Dad came in to see what was happening. My Dad said not to give him the money without a promissory note. He suggested that they come back tomorrow and we would make it legal. The next morning Al and Dennis came back and I typed a promissory note, Al signed and Dennis witnessed it. Al got the money and paid it back on Friday as promised.
My brother Don has saved this note for forty years and I'm glad he did. Andrew, the attached note is proof positive that Al was back in California in August of 1962. He definitely was back earlier than the dated document as he already got a job."
Here's the text of the note:
Promisary Note 8/17/62
On this seventeenth day of August, I promise to pay Gary Winfrey the sum of $105 to be paid on the day of the twentieth of August.
Signed (Alan Jardine)
Witness (Dennis Wilson)
So, as Gary says, Alan was back in California by mid-August 1962, working in some kind of salaried job and obviously hanging out with the Wilsons but not back in the Beach Boys. The inference is that he only spent a few months at Ferris (maybe April-June) before returning to California, then spent almost a year before rejoining to the band doing... what ?
It also clears up a nagging problem I've always had with his return - a local call to a friend you've been hanging out with for several months makes a lot more sense than a long-distance call to someone you've not seen for over a year.
Sometime later today I'll put the note up on a web page. Damn, I love this band !
By Brad on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 03:16 am:
Further support for Al being around in the summer of 1962 comes from Gary Usher, who recounted (in Stephen McParland's "The Wilson Project") a confrontation with Al in the mid-1980s over an investment that Al made in Gary's and Brian's Rachel & The Revolvers project. The tracks for that record were made Aug. 31, 1962.
However, since semesters at American colleges usually begin in September and January, I would assume that while Al quit the BBs circa April 1962, he probably didn't start attending Ferris University until the following September (at the start of the Fall semester), then came back to California early in 1963 (rather than enrolling in the Spring semster).
Brad
By AGD (Agd) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 03:26 am:
That would be very early 1963, Brad, since Gary remembers him bringing back a demo of "Surfin' USA" to the place they shared, and the earliest "SUSA" session was January 5th, I think (unless, of course, that was the demo session 
).
Then again, he could have been buying the car to drive to Ferris.
By Phlip (Phlip) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 07:55 am:
In "Our Favourite Recording Sessions," Stephen McParland refers to a 1995 interview by Chuck Harter and Alan Boyd with Virginia Jardine (Al's mom) that appeared in the December 1995 issue of "Endless Summer Quarterly."
VIRGINIA: "He didn't leave the group for that reason (to attend dental school). He didn't. No, no. Uh-uh. He didn't go to dental school. We moved. We moved to Big Rapids, Michigan. That's how he got removed from the group. We left the city. We wanted Al to come with us. He didn't want to leave. He was happy where he was. He decided to stay there (California) and use the (football) scholarship at Pepperdine, but I don't know... he hitchhiked across, hitchhiked to join us in Big Rapids. Really, that's how he got there. He joined us and went to college in Big Rapids. And he made As and Bs, made the Dean's (list)." (end of reference)
So Alan WAS at Ferris State at some point, and it either had to be the Fall Semester 1962 and/or the Spring Semester 1963. Ferris State's upcoming Fall semester begins on August 26th, and the Spring semester on January 13th. Of course, they may have been on a "quarter" schedule back then, which would have meant a much later starting date (late September). But if Al hitchhiked from California to Michigan (2000+ miles), it must have been without his parents knowledge (or they certainly would have wired him money for the bus, right?), and was probably a rather sudden and impulsive decision.
By Mikie (Mikie) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 08:18 am:
I know this is gonna sound goofy, but why not just ask AL for confirmation on this stuff? He MUST remember all the details, right? Maybe not the exact dates, but he must be able to come up with at least some kinda chronology that comes within plus or minus a month or two of what he did from 1961 - 1963. Does he not remember when he left and came back to the group?
Thanks AGD, Brad, Stephen, and Phlip for the great info anyway. ........But has anybody ever asked Al himself?
By Textus (Textus) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:24 am:
Note that prior to early 1970s, US colleges started fall semester about the third week of Sept, had an Xmas break, returned pretty much for finals right after Jan 1, broke in mid January for a Semester break and concluded spring semester in late May. Oklahoma and Oklahoma State switched to week berore labor day starting the cycle in fall of 1970, but when I went off to Oklahoma in 1970 several friends who got accepted at legitimately academic colleges didn't start until three weeks after that. I think by our sophomore years, even they were switched over to the earlier system, which was typified in my extended family by a cousin always having to study intensively while visiting for Christmas.
Why do both Al stories cited involve borrowed money?
By Paul_dash (Paul_dash) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:28 am:
This is all very interesting... Especially the stuff from Al"s mom...Please continue...
By Brad on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:46 am:
Proof that great minds think alike:
I thought the logical way to nail down this issue about when Alan attended Ferris State was to contact the school and ask them. I just got off the phone with the Registrar there and (surprise!) they were already looking up the information because somebody (Andrew? Steve?) e-mailed them to ask the same question!
Anyway, here's the information:
Alan Charles Jardine of Torrance, CA, attended Ferris State University from Sept. 16, 1960 to June 11, 1961 as a Freshman. He was a full-time student that year and did complete the school year.
Now what does that do to our chronology?!!
Brad
By Textus (Textus) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:51 am:
It throws it out the window and makes me wonder if there is other evidence that 1962 occurred before 1961.
it would certainly explain the Singing Nun.
By Brad on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:54 am:
Follow-up thoughts and questions:
(1) Alan obviously didn't go to Michigan and attend Ferris State after leaving The Beach Boys in the spring of 1962, so where did he go? And why did he leave The Beach Boys?
(2) If Alan was attending Ferris State through the first half of 1961, that means he couldn't have reconnected with Brian on the campus of El Camino College until, at the earliest, late June of 1961. Which means The Beach Boys probably came together in the summer of 1961 much faster than we've thought.
Brad
By Mikie (Mikie) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 10:05 am:
So much for the Dental school theory all these years, huh? Did he ever go to Dental school at all? And if he came back to L.A. the Summer of 1961, did he get back in the band immediately or wait awhile? Dave Marks says Al AND he played gigs together, but you never see them in any film together from the early 60's. First time I saw a picture of them together was on the "Surfer Girl" sheet music from 1963. And why did Al say once during an interview that he came back and Brian had written all these great songs? Was he referring to Surfin' and the early version of Surfer Girl? Were the Morgan sessions before or after Al came back? If Al got out of school in mid '61 and didn't get his picture on an album cover until late 1963, where was he? Not at school, obviously.....
And Al was involved with "What Is A Young Girl Made Of", right? That was released on the Kenny & The Cadets single in 1962.....when was that recorded again, '61 or '62?
Forgive me if I'm asking the obvious - I don't have AGD's timeline in front of me at the moment - maybe I'm just a little confused at Brad's "New" revelation here.
By Mikie (Mikie) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 10:09 am:
Sorry Brad - I was addressing your first post above before you followed up. Looks like you're kinda looking for the same answers to this gap in time as I am.
By Textus (Textus) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 10:52 am:
I thought it had already been pretty well established that "dental school" is a myth, and that at the point that Al left school he was still listed as a general studies major or possibly a pharmacy major.
Dental school is, of course, only a goal at the point of being an undergraduate.
By the way, I attribute the dental school myth to the published mistakes about Al's age during the 1970s. A writer at Circus -- and I really think we might be talking about Steve Gaines -- listed Al as being 35 in an article about the then-new Sunflower. It is easy to imagine someone believing the dental school story and supposing that Al was therefore at least four years older than Mike and Brian.
By AGD (Agd) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 03:30 pm:
Hey Brad - I just got home... and Ferris must be wondering why all the interest in one A. C. Jardine. Their alumni dept. emailed me the same dates:
"In checking our records I find that there was an Alan Charles Jardine that attended our university as a full-time freshman student for one academic year. He started here on 09-16-60 and last attended 06-11-61."
The plot thickens... time to ask Gary a few more questions, I think. Asking Alan might not be such a good idea..."um Al, care to explain how the facts don't square with what you've been saying for years ?". Maybe not.
Mikie sez "Forgive me if I'm asking the obvious - I don't have AGD's timeline in front of me at the moment - maybe I'm just a little confused at Brad's "New" revelation here."
Don't worry bud, the early part of my timeline just went into meltdown. Squaring the circle will be a cinch compared to trying to hammer this little lot into a coherent sequence... but damn, isn't this fun ?!
By AGD (Agd) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 04:07 pm:
OK, new sequence of events:
1957 - Alan meets Brian, forms Islanders
1960 - 9/16, Alan attends Ferris
1961 - winter, Alan, Gary & Lent approach Morgan, evidently during Alan's winter break
1961 - 6/11, Alan leaves Ferris, then returns to California, enrols at El Camino Community College, meets Brian again, re-auditions for the Morgans twice and helps form the Beach Boys in seconds flat
1962 - Feb, Alan leaves the band, but does not go to university, at least in Michigan
1963 - June/July, Alan rejoins the band - officially.
Big gap between 2/62 and 6/63, right ? Right. Any bright ideas ? Nope, me neither, except that we know he was in California and working in August 1962. OK, time for some more emails. But first...
I'm going to bed. Godnight all.
By Incognito (Incognito) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 04:54 pm:
Is El Camino College still around? Anyone contact
them? I remember an article in Esquire magazine
years ago (60s or 70s), made up of college
photographs of rock stars, and there were pictures
of both Brian and Al with El Camino College under
their names. Don't remember if it included the
dates. Anyone else remember this?
By Phlip (Phlip) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 06:33 pm:
What Alan said (quotes from Gaines and White books, recapped by McParland in "Our Favourite Recording Sessions"):
ALAN: "I made the decision I didn't really want to put a big investment into the group, and, at the same time, I wanted to finish dental school... I had to make a decision to sign with Capitol Records and drop my professional ideals, or stay in school. I decided to stay in school... At that time we were doing a lot of Chubby Checker tunes. They were cute, you know, but I didn't enjoy singing them that much... Then Brian sneaks in all these great songs after I decide to leave the group." (End of reference)
So what could have happened that would jibe with Alan's own recollections of that period? (The only real conflict is that now we know Al didn't leave the group to pursue "dental studies" at FERRIS STATE).
A working hypothesis:
1. Alan attends Ferris State for his freshman year (09-16-60 to 06-11-61). He gets As and Bs and makes the Dean's List.
2. The Jardines move back to California sometime in 1961, and Alan attends El Camino CC for one semester (Fall 1961). Perhaps he runs into Brian sometime in June 1961 while enrolling for the Fall Semester.
3. Alan transfers to some other as-yet-unknown local senior college in January 1962, and is enrolled in some kind of "pre-dental" program.
4. Alan quits the Beach Boys sometime soon after the Hite Morgan "union" (AFM) sessions (February 8, 1962) at World Pacific ("Surfin' Safari," Surfer Girl," "Judy," and "Karate") to concentrate on his studies. Unlike Brian and Dennis, Alan had chosen NOT to join the musicians union prior to this session.
5. Alan performs bvs for "Barbee" (Kenny & the Cadets) on March 8, 1962 (as a favor to Hite Morgan) AFTER he has officially left the Beach Boys.
6. When the time comes to sign with Capitol Records (April/May 1962), Alan believes (or is led to believe) that he has one last opportunity to rejoin the Beach Boys as the 5th (or 6th?) member. (Maybe Brian does not want to tour?)... He declines.
7. In August 1962, Alan loans Brian Wilson and Gary Usher $800 (his entire life savings) so that Brian and Gary can produce two Rachel & the Revolvers tracks. Brian and Gary never pay him back, and Alan still remembers (and is still angry) 24 years later when he meets up with Gary Usher at the "Spirit of Rock and Roll" vocal sessions in December 1986.
8. Not in the group, but still party to its activities, Alan obtains a demo of "Surfin' USA" in January 1963, and plays it for Gary Winfrey.
9. As a "summer job" in 1963, Alan returns to the Beach Boys as Brian's "road" replacement. At the end of the summer, David Marks (technically) leaves the group, and Alan agrees to stay on as the "5th Beach Boy."
As AGD points out, the main question would have to do with the very genesis of the Beach Boys... Summer 1961... So many events, it all must have happened VERY quickly. Much faster than previously thought.
By Brad on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:45 pm:
AGD wrote:
> OK, new sequence of events:
>
> 1957 - Alan meets Brian, forms Islanders
> 1960 - 9/16, Alan attends Ferris
> 1961 - winter, Alan, Gary & Lent approach Morgan, evidently during Alan's winter
> break
> 1961 - 6/11, Alan leaves Ferris, then returns to California, enrols at El Camino
> Community College, meets Brian again, re-auditions for the Morgans twice and
> helps form the Beach Boys in seconds flat
The only part of that I might really disagree with is Alan and Gary Winfrey approaching Hite Morgan over Alan's winter break from Ferris State University. If Virginia Jardine's memory is correct, the Jardines were in Michigan during the time that Alan was at Ferris State, so there'd be no reason for Alan to end up in California over his winter break. He most likely would have spent it with his family in Michigan. Also, why would Alan have been trying to get something going with a music career in California over winter break when he was going back to college in Michigan the next month?
Then there's the fact that Brian and Alan both have reported that when they bumped into each other on the El Camino campus (which we now date to about June 1961), it had been quite some time since they'd seen each other. So it simply doesn't fit that Gary and Alan would have been "over at Brian's house" in December 1960 or January 1961 for Audrey to give them "the idea to contact Hite Morgan." That was only 5 or 6 months earlier. I think a much longer amount of time had to have passed between that visit and Brian and Alan getting reacquainted at El Camino.
Now, follow me ...
Based on what Gary Winfrey told Andrew, I think it's a logical assumption that Bob Barrow was a little older than Alan and Gary. Gary indicated that Bob had to leave the group because he went to college in the fall of 1960, leaving Alan and Gary behind. However, we now know that Alan went to college in the fall of 1960. So when was it that Bob went to college and left the group? It had to be earlier, so I think we're probably talking about the fall of 1959, rather than a year later.
Working from that conclusion, can we then assume that it was the winter of 1960 (not 1961) when Gary and Alan were told by Audrey to go see Morgan? That would make sense if indeed it had been a substantial amount of time since Brian and Alan had seen each other when they ran into each other at El Camino. This scenario makes it a year-and-half, rather than just 5 or 6 months.
So then where are we? Well, it becomes Summer 1960 when Hite Morgan calls Gary & Alan and they come to his studio with Keith Lent. This also makes a lot more sense than supposing that Gary & Alan would leave their first meeting with Morgan with the understanding that Hite would call if "anything comes up" and Alan then immediately heading back to Michigan. What would Alan have done if Hite had called? Skipped classes to come back to California? No, I think it's far more likely that Gary & Alan would have left things with Hite that way only if they were going to be around for a while.
In any event, nothing comes of that session with Morgan, the Jardines move to Michigan, and Alan enrolls at Ferris State in the fall of 1960. Alan's away until June of 1961, when he becomes reacquainted with Brian, and it's at that time that Brian first becomes musically involved with Alan. After an apparent abortive attempt to work with The Islanders, Brian brings Alan into the Wilson family music-making and they go see Hite.
So here's how I would lay it out in chronological outline form:
1957 - Alan meets Brian, forms Islanders
1959 - fall, Bob Barrow goes off to college and leave the Islanders
1960 - early, Alan & Gary approach Hite Morgan
1960 - summer, Morgan calls Alan & Gary back and auditions Alan, Gary & Keith Lent on "Rio Grande"
1960 - 9/16, Alan enters Ferris State University
1961 - 6/11, Alan leaves Ferris, then returns to California, enrols at El Camino Community College, meets Brian again and enlists his help briefly with The Islanders, re-auditions for the Morgans twice and helps form the Beach Boys
Whaddya think?
Brad
By AGD (Agd) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:36 pm:
Brad, and everyone else mixed up in this mess (!), forget what I think and harken ye to someone who was there at the time. Just had a quick word with Gary Winfrey, and he totally refutes the dates Ferris gave us. He think that they were looking at Alan's dates at El Camino College:
"Alan graduated High School in Jun 1960 and attented El Camino College from Sept 1960 to June 1961. I know this to be true as I also attended El Camino at the same time. Could Ferris have been reading his transcripts from El Camino? In the US when you change Schools you have to send your records (or transcripts) to the new school."
Looks eminently plausible to me...
Gary's mom recalls Alan staying with them when his folks moved back to Michigan in the summer of 1961, and Gary states that he & Alan moved into an apartment in January 1963. OK, back to the drawing board...
By STE (Ste) on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 11:39 pm:
>Big gap between 2/62 and 6/63, right ? Right. >Any bright ideas ?
Isn't when he was waiting for the bus? Ahah..ok.
Seriously, Brad timeline sounds very credible.
I do think, though, someone should ask Alan, once we're conviced of our timeline.
AGD should maybe also check if Bob Barrow was really older than Alan and Gary.
By Brad on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:03 am:
Andrew,
The clerk I talked to in the Registrar's office at Ferris had to pull Alan's records from microfilm. I asked her specifically if the records showed any information about other colleges that Alan might have attended either prior to or immediately after Ferris. I was hoping there'd be a notation as to when he transferred to or from El Camino and possibly Pepperdine (where his mom says he had a scholarship). The clerk said that they had no records indicating ANYTHING concerning any other college, only his data from Ferris.
I guess the next step is trying to find out from El Camino what their records might show. I'll give them a call in the morning and see what they say. Once I have that information, if it conflicts with what Ferris told me, I'll call the woman back and see if I can get things cleared up.
Brad
P.S. -- I also asked the clerk at Ferris about whether Alan's grades were shown in his records and she indicated they were. However, when I asked if she could tell me what they were, she said there are some things they can only release to the student himself. 
By AGD (Agd) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:20 am:
Sooo... you don't believe he got As & Bs and made Dean's list ? :-O. That's what I call a healthily skeptical attitude. All great researchers have 'em.
Thinking out loud - isn't it a little strange that there's no record of the grades he would presumably (I'm no expert on the US educational system) have had to submit to get into Ferris ? Or where he transferred from ? Or am I reading too much into this ?
I checked out the El Camino website a few weeks ago - would you believe no email address ? Or if there is , I can't find it.
The big problem here is that Gary and his family absolutely remember the dates given above. I guess if El Camino has records, we'll have to go with what they say.
Hmmm... just had another thought.
By Textus (Textus) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 06:51 am:
This was the era of manual typewriters, and I seem to remember that 1 and 2 were next to each other back then as well as now. (Oops, now I remember that there often weren't 1 keys and that you had to remember to type an l instead. But still.... )Is it possible we're simply talking about a typo? Any Michiganders here who could go look for Al in a yearbook in a library or something?
I have to tell you, with great respect to all involved in telling this story, much of what I thought I knew 10 years ago I know know isn't so, and much of what I knew then contradicted what I knew 20 and 30 years ago.
By AGD (Agd) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:19 am:
Knew there was a problem with Brad's new sequence, and I've finally figured it out. It's here:
"1959 - fall, Bob Barrow goes off to college and leave the Islanders"
The problem is, the photo of the three of them wasn't merely assumed to be July 1960, it's actually dated July 1960 - what you see on the web page is a cropped & enlarged version. On the original scan as sent to me, it's square, and down the right hand side is printed JUL.60 - it looks like an early Polaroid. That ties in with Gary's recollection of Bob leaving in fall 1960.
And still leaves us up in the air. More thought required.
Any news from El Camino ?
By AGD (Agd) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:04 pm:
OK, checked it out - the date was put on the photo by the developing lab, so it's accurate. The camera was a Kodak, BTW.
By Susan on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:08 pm:
I am so engrossed in this! I think this is very cool what you guys are doing. I'd do something, but my resources are limited, and I'm not up to making long distance phone calls and researching that kind of stuff, when I have my own school work and such to deal with.
Keep it up!
By Sopalin (Sopalin) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:45 pm:
Just elbowing in here to say what entertaining stuff this is. Part of me says it shouldn't be, but I'm not listening to that. I love this board. Such harmless craziness and good spirit.
By Brad on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:50 pm:
Andrew, yeah, there's news from El Camino, but it's not good. State law is different in California than it is in Michigan, and the Records department at El Camino cannot give out information to the general public on when students attended the school!
But there might yet be some information coming from the school. A librarian at El Camino has pulled the school's yearbooks for the years 1960, 1961 and 1962 (the 1963 book is missing) and is going to page through them (they have no indices!) in her spare time over the next couple of days. I'm supposed to call her back on Friday to see what she's found.
On the other hand, I again talked with the Registrar's Office at Ferris State and I am more convinced than ever that Alan attended there during the 1960-61 school year. Why am I so convinced? Because his father, Donald C. Jardine, was on the faculty at the school that year -- and no other year!
Donald Jardine was an instructor in Visual Reproductions at Ferris Institute (as the school was then known) for the 1960-61 school year. That explains not only why Alan was enrolled there that year, but also why his family moved to Michigan!
Donald Jardine's bio in the 1960-61 Catalog reads:
"B.A. University of Toledo; three years teaching experience at Rochester Institute of Technology; 17 years' experience in the field."
In regard to Alan's college record there, the clerk had a printout from the microfilmed records in front of her while talking to me today and was able to add a lot of additional details that further support that Alan was enrolled there in 1960-61. She confirmed for me that he was a Freshman when he attended Ferris and added that his application was received in June 1960, showing that he'd just graduated from Hawthorne High. His address when he applied was on El Segundo Boulevard in Hawthorne, but while he was enrolled, it was changed to Linden Street in Big Rapids, Michigan (where Ferris State is located). The final address they have for him, immediately post-dating his Freshman year, is on Yukon Street in Torrance, California. Not coincidentally, I think, the Yukon Street address is the one that's shown for him on the AFM contract for the February 1962 Hite Morgan session.
I think there's NO chance that a transcript from El Camino accidentally replaced the record of his year at Ferris State. The clerk explained to me that in the early 1960s, at the end of each quarter, the class record and grades for a student were typed onto a pre-printed sticker and then pasted on the student's "Permanent Record" card -- i.e., the student's class record and grades for the entire year were NOT entered at one time. The microfilmed record she was looking at was a copy of Alan's Permanent Record card, and she said it was very clear that three such stickers -- one for each quarter he attended -- had been pasted on the card. (FYI, the three quarters Alan attended ran Sept. 11 to Dec. 3, 1960; Dec. 5, 1960 to March 11, 1961; and March 13, 1960 to June 11, 1961. Christmas recess began Dec. 17, 1960, with classes resuming Jan. 3, 1961.)
So, while I don't want to cast doubt on the accuracy of Gary's recollection, I very much doubt that both Alan's Permanent Record card (with separate stickers for each quarter) and the 1960-61 Ferris Institute catalog are wrong about when the Jardines were in Michigan. But just to be sure, I've asked Ferris' Human Resources Department to dig back into their non-microfilmed employement records for the era and provide me with Donald Jardine's dates of employment there. They're supposed to have that information ready for me on Friday.
Brad
P.S. - More about Donald Jardine and Ferris Institute: Mr. Jardine was a noted photographer for the Lima Locomotive Works in the 1950s. Looking at the course descriptions in the 1960-61 Ferris catalog, I would guess that he taught such classes at Ferris as "Introduction to Photography" (VR-143), "Photocopy and Darkroom Techniques" (VR-163), "Microfilm and Advanced Darkroom Techniques" (VR-261), "Photographic Theory - Cameras and Platemaking" (VR-271), and "Photography for Reproduction Purposes" (VR-272). [The course descriptions do not include the name of the instructor.]
Ferris offered a 2-year "Visual Reproduction Technician" program. According to the catalog, Ferris' program was "the first training program organized in a college to prepare technicians for the Visual Communications industry."
[FYI, all of Ferris' catalogs from throughout the school's history can be viewed online at the Registrar's webpage!]
P.P.S. -- I've also inquired of the Rochester Institute of Technology as to when Mr. Jardine worked there and should hear something back from them on Thursday.
By AGD (Agd) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:43 pm:
What happens when you get two people beavering away at the same problem from different ends ? Eventually they meet in the middle and come to an accord. Gary's been checking with his family and this is his revised sequence of events:
6/60 - Al graduates from Hawthorne High
8/60 - Al's parents move to MI, Alan moves in with the Winfreys
9/60 - Al attends Ferris
6/61 - Al returns to CA, probably post 6/14
9/61 - Al enrols at El Camino*, "Surfin'" recorded
2/62 - Al leaves the BB
6/62 - Al leaves El Camino (on promise of Pepperdine football scholarship ?)
1/63 - Al moves in with Gary in Gardena CA
2/63 - Al & Gary move to Hermosa Beach (the 'demo' of "Surfin' USA" that Al brought home would appear to be an advance copy)
6/63 - Al rejoins the band
The problem with accepted BB history occurs at * - if Al & Brian rekindled their relationship at El Camino, then the story about the Labor Day weekend rehersals, and any previous contact with the Morgans, is in doubt. I prefer to think that the story of Alan & Brian running into each other at El Camino is just that - a story, on a par with Alan leaving the band to go to Michigan to pursue a dentistry course, something that Brad & I have discovered to be demonstrably false. It also looks like the 1/61 Islanders audition with the Morgans is indeed misdated by a year, for the very excellent reasons Brad stated, i.e. that Alan's parents were with him in Michigan.
Brad, any chance Bruce Morgan would remember when his parents set up their home studio ? That would answer quite a lot. In the meantime, I've got a timeline and Islanders article to revise...
But I still love this band.
By Mikie (Mikie) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:51 pm:
I LOVE to beaver away. Why just the other night I.....
Nah, better not.
Good thread boys. Maybe we'll see the results of this thorough investigation in Brad's next book. On the page with the credits and thank you's, AGD's name should be printed in uppercase bold italics for emphasis.....
By Susan on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:18 pm:
Rip snortin' good research fellas.
By Brad on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:28 pm:
Andrew,
I like that chronology a lot better than what you were proposing before!
** The problem with accepted BB history occurs at * - if Al & Brian rekindled their relationship at El Camino, then the story about the Labor Day weekend rehersals, and any previous contact with the Morgans, is in doubt. I prefer to think that the story of Alan & Brian running into each other at El Camino is just that - a story **
Not necessarily. I expect that El Camino probably had a short summer semester, and my guess would be that Alan and Brian met during it. Even though they won't give me any information on when Alan attended, maybe I can find out semester dates in 1961. I'll see what I can do.
One of the reasons I think it's not just a story is this quote from Alan that was included in the 1974 BBC documentary, "The Beach Boys Story" [emphasis mine]:
"Brian and I were in rival singing groups in Hawthorne High School, in Hawthorne, California, in 1959. I always admired what he did. You know, I knew there was something happening there with his arrangements and the way he just, you know, the way he carried himself. AFTER WE LEFT HIGH SCHOOL, I WENT OFF TO COLLEGE IN THE EAST, and I couldn't find anybody that I was really happy with -- just to get together with, to sing and to harmonize, and to make music. So I just hunted Brian down. I bumped into him at El Camino College. IN MY SECOND YEAR OF COLLEGE, I CAME BACK WEST. MY FATHER WAS TEACHING AT THIS OTHER PLACE. WE CAME BACK TO CALIFORNIA TO PURSUE ANOTHER LINE OF WORK, AND I ENDED UP BACK IN LOS ANGELES, WENT TO EL CAMINO, and I was walking across the campus and, boom, there was Brian."
It's just too perfect a fit for the facts as we now know them!
** It also looks like the 1/61 Islanders audition with the Morgans is indeed misdated by a year, for the very excellent reasons Brad stated, i.e. that Alan's parents were with him in Michigan. **
I have some real doubts, though, about a 1960 date for that audition session. Since it was done without Bob Barrow, it must have taken place post-July 1960 (because of the dating on the photo). Maybe Bob left mid-summer and there were a couple of months where Alan and Gary worked without him, and it was during that time that they went to the Wilsons and were directed to Hite Morgan. However, that just doesn't sit right with me. Why, just weeks before he's moving to Michigan and going off to college, would Alan be trying to pursue something in the music industry? Also, as far as I know, there's never been anybody quoted to the effect that Alan had met Murry and Audrey before he bumped into Brian at El Camino. In fact, in that same BBC documentary, Alan said:
"Up to that point [where he'd bumped into Brian on the El Camino campus], I had seen Brian, I think, a year previous in a hamburger stand, if you can believe that. And I said -- I dropped the word then -- I said, 'Let's get together, Brian, I'm going back east for a year.' So he said, 'Fine, I'll see you later,' you know. So this was later."
I just don't see how that kind of recollection jibes with Alan & Gary inquring of Audrey in mid 1960 (or anytime before bumping into Brian at El Camino) about who to see in the music business.
Rather, at this time, I have to think that the entire series of events involving Brian, Audrey, Murry and Hite Morgan transpired in a VERY short period of time in the summer of 1961.
This is how my proposed chronology looks like now:
1957 - Al meets Brian, forms The Islanders
6/60 - Al & Brian graduate from Hawthorne High
8/60 - Al's parents move to MI, Al moves in with the Winfreys
9/60 - Al hitchikes to MI and attends Ferris, Bob Barrow goes off to college, The Islanders disband
6/61 - Al returns to CA, revives The Islanders (with Gary & Don), enrolls at El Camino College and meets Brian again
Summer 1961 - Alan & Gary ask Audrey about a contact in the music industry, approach Hite Morgan and are called back weeks (not months) later to audition "Rio Grande" (with Keith Lent)
9/61 - Alan (with the Wilson brothers and Mike Love) re-auditions for the Morgans twice and helps form the Beach Boys, "Surfin'" demo recorded
10/61 - studio recording of "Surfin'"
2/62 - Al leaves the BB
6/62 - Al leaves El Camino (on promise of Pepperdine football scholarship?) ***
1/63 - Al moves in with Gary in Gardena CA
2/63 - Al & Gary move to Hermosa Beach (the 'demo' of "Surfin' USA" that Al brought home would appear to be an advance copy)
6/63 - Al rejoins the band
The only item with which I have a problem (***) is the assumption that Alan left El Camino in June 1962, possibly because of a Pepperdine football scholarship. In her ESQ interview with Alan Boyd and Chuck Harter six years ago, Virginia Jardine placed the Pepperdine scholarship opportunity as occurring before Alan's enrollment at Ferris. Specifically, she said:
"We moved to Big Rapids, Michigan. [...] We left the city. We wanted Al to come with us. He didn't want to leave, he was happy where he was. So he got this football scholarship at Pepperdine. He decided to stay there [This apparently would be when he was staying with the Winfreys. - BE] and use the scholarship. But I don't know ... he hitchiked across, hitchiked to join us in Big Rapids. [...] That's how he got there. He joined us and went to college in Big Rapids."
Which leaves unanswered the quesion of just WHAT Alan was doing from June 1962 to June 1963. That's why I really have to question whether he left school that June. It would make a lot more sense if he stayed in school another year, especially since (1) it appears that his decision to leave The Beach Boys was predicated upon him continuing his education, and (2) his rejoining The Beach Boys occurred at the end of a school year. What does Gary remember Alan doing when they were sharing an apartment in January and February 1963?
** Brad, any chance Bruce Morgan would remember when his parents set up their home studio ? That would answer quite a lot. **
Yeah, it would. Right now, though, with all the legal mess with The Beach Boys going on, getting Bruce to answer any questions outside of a deposition is close to an impossibility. Give me a couple of months, though, and I'll get you a definitive answer.
Brad
By Brad on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:54 pm:
I just got off the phone with the El Camino College records department, and there was indeed a Summer semester in 1961! It started June 21, 1961 and ran through August 2. I think that gives us the time frame for Brian and Alan meeting and becoming reacquainted.
FYI, the Fall semester at El Camino in those days typically began mid-September and concluded in late January (with about a month break in December). The Fall 1961 semester began on Sept. 11 and concluded on Jan. 26.
The Spring semester then started just a few days after the end of the Fall semester and ran through mid-June. The Spring 1962 semester began on Jan. 31 and concluded on June 15.
Assuming that the dates for the 1962-63 semesters were similar, that would fit perfectly with Alan rejoining The Beach Boys at the end of another school year. [No, I didn't ask the clerk at El Camino for the 1962-63 dates. I sensed I already was trying her patience just asking for the 1961-62 semester dates, and I didn't want to push the issue. If necessary, I'll call her back in a couple of days and inquire further, but first I want to see what Gary says Alan was doing in early 1963. Andrew?]
By Phlip (Phlip) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 04:40 pm:
Brad: Why would Al attend a junior college for TWO years (June 1961-June 1963) after he had already completed his Freshman year at Ferris Institute? Obviously, it could have been "part-time," but why?
If he quit the Beach Boys just to go to school part-time (at a time when the group wasn't really "touring"), then he must have had a "full-time" job that precluded him from doing anything else... a job he needed to finance a planned transfer to a much more expensive "specialty" school. (Attending El Camino CC would not have been much more expensive than attending high school). Or perhaps he had already transferred (either of which would be a plausible reason to quit the Beach Boys in February 1962), and was occupied 60 or 80 hours a week working and going to school.
Problem: Al says the $800 he loaned to Brian and Gary in August 1962 (for the Rachel & the Revolvers record) was his "life-savings". If Al was attending (or about to transfer to) a more expensive school than El Camino, how could he afford to loan ANYBODY $800? This might help explain why Al remained angry at Gary Usher for nearly 25 years. He LOANS (remember, this is NOT an investment) his entire savings ($800, intended to finance his education) to two friends who want to produce a record (boy, I'd like to hear a tape of the spiel Gary and Brian laid on Al!), who then... don't pay him back! So by January 1963, he can't afford to attend school anymore. (Unless he himself takes out a loan to pay for it).
Which is when he moves in with Gary Winfrey in Hermosa Beach, working full-time while now able to attend school (pre-dentistry program) only part-time (if at all). All the more reason to jump at a chance to rejoin the Beach Boys in June!
By Calsaga (Calsaga) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 05:27 pm:
Some quotes of interest:
Goldmine 2000
"Just before the Summer of '63 Brian called and begged me to come back into the band. By then I was kind of fed up with school, and Brian was feeling pressure from Murry to tour to support the album. HE SENT ME A DUB OF THE NEW SINGLE "SURFIN' USA" BACKED WITH "SHUT DOWN" TO HELP ME PREPARE FOR THE TOUR. I had already worked on "Surfin' USA" in it's inception so I knew that quite well, but I had to learn "Shut Down." Al Jardine
"Standing outside of a bowling alley in Hawthorne, CA singing folk songs. Singing one in particular that I still like. I swear to God every time I see a mandolin like the one you showed me at your house, he just loved when I played guitar or anything. THIS WAS IN THE EARLY 60's. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AFTER I LEFT THE GROUP FOR A WHILE. WE'D STAY IN TOUCH AND I'd ALWAYS COME BY AND I'D SING ON A FEW SONGS ON THE EARLY STUFF AS WELL. I sang backgrounds on a lot of the very early things even though I wasn't on the album covers. There was one called "Lonely Sea" a beautiful plaintive song. A bunch of stuff like that. Dennis couldn't wait for me to get my guitar out or mandolin and start playing a folk song. Al Jardine
By Calsaga (Calsaga) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 05:36 pm:
This is from an article that appeared in a Rochester, NY newspaper May 1979.
It probably surprised more than a few people when Alan Jardine told the audience he once lived in the Rochester area, and that, for him, last night's concert was a homecoming.
Backstage, before the performance, Jardine said he lived in Summerville "near the lake" when he was nine (in 1951). His father, he said, taught offset printing at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
By Phlip (Phlip) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 06:39 pm:
AGD: On your timeline, Brian Wilson is listed as attending El Camino CC for only ONE semester (and that was in 1960). I realize you're taking your info from other sources, but how was it that Alan Jardine was able to "track" Brian down at El Camino in the Summer of 1961, if Brian wasn't there at that time? And if Brian attended El Camino for only one semester (Fall 1960?) after graduating from Hawthorne High in June 1960, what was he doing January-August 1961? Somehow I just can't picture Brian working full-time. Sort of like the idea of Mozart pumping gas at the Chevron. It just don't fit.
By Calsaga (Calsaga) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 07:59 pm:
A couple of other notes:
June 11, 1961 was a Sunday. Seems odd that they would end a semester on a Sunday.
According to most of the early BBs Bios when Brian and Al met at El Camino, they mention rehearsing in the nurses quarters because one of the singers sprained his knee in a football game.
By Susan on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:42 pm:
Wow. You guys are awesome.
What started this enquiry, anyway? Andrew's interview with Gary? I'm fascinated - great work, y'all!
By Brad on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:16 pm:
** June 11, 1961 was a Sunday. Seems odd that they would end a semester on a Sunday. **
The Academic Calendar in the 1960-61 Ferris Institute catalog shows the Spring Quarter running from March 13 to June 11, but the last actual events on it are final examinations June 5-8. So I don't know.
Maybe June 11 was when commencement exercises were held (they're not listed on the calendar). Or maybe it was something odd like the last day the dorms at the school were open to students, or maybe it was the date they used to close the books on the school year from a financial standpoint. Who knows?
Well, actually, I'm sure somebody at Ferris probably knowss, but I'm not going to bug them again for that. I think I already exhausted their patience with so many questions about something that's ancient history to them. They'd probably freak if I called back and asked them why their 1960-61 school year ended on a Sunday!
Brad
By Mikie (Mikie) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 07:01 am:
"And I'd sing on a few songs on the early stuff as well. I sang backgrounds on a lot of the very early things even though I wasn't on the album covers."
I never knew that. Can any session sheets or other documentation substantiate that Al sung on some of the early songs in the studio, Brad? I know he did backgrounds when they were on the road, but didn't know he was on the records before the Christmas album in 1963.
By Mikie (Mikie) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 07:02 am:
Sung. I meant "sang". Geez.
By Textus (Textus) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 07:38 am:
In examining accounts of the Wilsons and Havens (do I have that name right?) going to Mexico for the weekend, I assume that Ian Whitcomb's memoir has been used. I've read it a couple of times, don't have it here in front of me, but find it interesting because his source is the Havens and not anyone else connected with Capitol or the BBs. At least as he represents it, which I know is a different matter.
Donald Jardine was a noted railroad photographer?????? I'm going to have to start a different thread on that one. See "From the POV of the spike"
By Paul_dash (Paul_dash) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:09 am:
Mikie... I believe Jardine has a songwriting credit on Surfer Girl lp...
By AGD (Agd) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:23 am:
"South Bay Surfer", for which there was a session on 7/16/63.
By Mikie (Mikie) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:59 am:
OK......... and Barbie, released by Kenny & The Cadets in '62. What else?
By Phlip (Phlip) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:18 am:
It is interesting that just as David Marks (through Carrie Marks) was initially doubted by many posters here (including myself) when he said he was present for Beach Boys activities (concerts and sessions) long after he had ostensibly "left" the band (usually presumed to be August 31, 1963), so too Alan Jardine was ignored for 28 YEARS after he stated in the BBC documentary (cited by Brad) that he was away at college the year BEFORE he got together with Brian and formed the Beach Boys!
Remember how David Marks (through Carrie Marks) enlightened us to the fact that there was an overlap of several months between the return of Al, and the (semi) departure of David?... that Al returned to replace Brian, NOT to replace David (as had been the accepted urban legend)... Well, the evidence was there the whole time (in the form of a picture of the Beach Boys--including both Alan and David TOGETHER--on the cover of the sheet music for "Surfer Girl").
Stephen Desper has provided new illumination into a lot of the events of 1967-1972, busting long-held mistaken beliefs with the light of truth.
And until about two days ago, the idea of Al Jardine being present for Beach Boys recording sessions during the 1962-63 school year seemed illogical and improbable, because it was assumed he had absolutely and totally left the group so that he could attend college (dental school) in Michigan. But in last year's "Goldmine" interview cited by Calsaga, Al stated it very clearly... He was there for various sessions during the 1962-63 school year. And he sang bvs on "The Lonely Sea" session (the one from April 19, 1962, the same one that produced "409" and "Surfin' Safari"), two months AFTER he supposedly left the group. Al has also said that he made the decision to leave the Beach Boys when it came time to sign the contract with Capitol Records. Not before. So maybe that's what happened.
How many other chapters of the "Beach Boys story" need to be revisited? Maybe the truth is there, staring us right in the face! I know if it wasn't for AGD and Brad, Carrie Marks and Stephen Desper, many of us (including myself) would still be living on the dark side of the moon.
By Brad on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:23 pm:
** he sang bvs on "The Lonely Sea" session (the one from April 19, 1962, the same one that produced "409" and "Surfin' Safari"), two months AFTER he supposedly left the group. **
Ummm ... probably not, at least not at THAT particular session.
"Lonely Sea" as cut on April 19, 1962 was a MONO recording, just like "Surfin' Safari" and "409." Listen closely to the released version of "LS" on SURFIN' USA -- it's stereo! The left channel is the instrumental track and Brian's lead vocal. The right channel has, besides bleedthrough from the left channel, only the backing vocals. That's a very odd mix! If the track had been cut on 3-track like the rest of the SURFIN' USA album, the lead vocal would surely have been mixed to the center. But what we're dealing with is a mono recording (the instrumental track and lead vocal heard in the left channel) made on April 19, 1962, plus a backing vocal overdub made at a later date.
Alan wasn't at the April 19 session and, unfortunately, we have no documentation for when the backing vocal overdub was recorded. Since "LS" didn't appear on the SURFIN' SAFARI album, the logical assumption is that the overdub post-dates the sessions for that album (i.e., after September 1962). My guess would be that the backing vocals were laid down in January or February 1963, in the midst of the documented sessions for the SURFIN' U.S.A. album. Which fits when you take into account Al's statement that he "had already worked on 'Surfin' USA' in its inception."
Surf's up!
Brad
By Carrie (Carrie) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:09 pm:
"Al has also said that he made the decision to leave...when it came time to sign the contract with Capitol Records. Not before. So maybe that's what happened."
Here's a question that doesn't quite "feel" right about that. Why would Al choose not to sign the Capitol contract (which would have given him decent front money as well as 20% of the artist's royalties along with the support of a major label promoting the album) because he'd rather not be in the music business and would rather do the safe thing and go back to school. But then a month later, risk his whole life savings on a project like Rachel and the Revolvers? It doesn't seem like something a guy on his way out of the music business and on his way to dental school would do?
Stranger things have happened but still, it doesn't seem "right". Am I missing something here?
By Textus (Textus) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:24 pm:
Could there have been an initial resentment of the way Murry took the group to Capitol and concern that it was going to become a Wilson family enterprise? Each of the three high school grads in the "original" group were all under the impression, it seems to me, that he had recruited the other two and the kid bros into a group. the group resembled the neo-Rivingtons group that Mike had in mind and the neo-Freshmen group that Brian had in mind. Did Al think, as Murry took the biz reins, that by god it wasn't the neo-Kingstons group that he had in mind?
By Cam Mott on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:40 pm:
Phlip,
I'll bet a donut that there is alot of Beach Boys "history" that is inaccurate and the real story has been staring us in the face the whole time but we thought we knew better.
Or maybe not.
Cam
By Brad on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 04:14 pm:
I've done a little further research trying to figure where Al was between June 1962 (when, presumably, he finished his sophomore year at El Camino College) and June 1963 (when he rejoined The Beach Boys).
I think what little evidence we have points to Al being enrolled in a third year of college somewhere. Notice that quote of his from Goldmine that Calsaga posted:
"Just before the Summer of '63 Brian called and begged me to come back into the band. By then I was kind of fed up with school."
That would seem to indicate that Al went on and did a third year of college somewhere while he was away from The Beach Boys. But the question is: At what college did he spend his third year?
Phlip made the point that it doesn't make a lot of sense for Al to have done a third year at El Camino, a two-year community college. For the most part, I agree with that, although I've known people who decided to totally change their course of study midway through their second year and stayed for a third year to complete the classes in the new field. I have no evidence one way or the other, but it's possible Al did something like that. Also, it's possible that not all of Al's credits transferred from Ferris Institute, so he might have had to take some classes in a third year at El Camino to complete an accredited sophomore year.
One thing I can say for sure is that he wasn't enrolled at Pepperdine University (in Malibu) for his third year of college. I talked to the Registrar's Office there today and they have no record of an Alan Charles Jardine ever attending school there -- not in 1962-63 or any year. So while Al may have been offered a football scholarship there at some point (as his mom says), he never took advantage of it and never attended the school. Of course, there are lots of colleges and universities in the L.A. area (where we know he was that year), so he could have been enrolled in some other school. Short of calling them all, though, I know of no way to determine which one.
So I'm tossing the ball back to Andrew. Have you had a chance yet, good sir, to ask Gary Winfrey what Al was doing job-wise or school-wise in early 1963, when the two of them were sharing an apartment?
Brad
By AGD (Agd) on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:48 pm:
I'm on the case, boss - have asked, still waiting on a reply... but here's something else to fill the gap. I got in touch with an accquaintance of Alan's during those years, who recalled speding the summer of 1962 "lifting weights with him in a friend's garage" - with bathroom breaks, presumably - and he recalls that Alan advanced two reasons for quitting the band. Firstly, that it cost them $100 for the "Surfin'/Luau" session and they didn't make their money back, so he figured there was "no money in being a Beach Boy"... and secondly, he hated the concerts, specifically being hassled by jealous boyfriends.
I'm sure you've all spotted the problem with reason #1 - it's been widely reported that when the first (only ?) royalty check for "Surfin'" came in, Murry pitched in with a few bucks of his own to round it up to $1000, or two hundred each (of course, it was also widely believed- until a few days ago - that Alan left the band to attend college in Michigan ). As for #2, between the release of "Surfin'" and Alan's departure in mid-February 1962, we know of precisely two concerts, the disastrous two-song slot in a Dick Dale intermission and the Richie Valens Memorial gig. How many more shows could the band have played during the remaining 40-odd days Alan was in the band ? Less than 40, in fact, allowing for rehersals, sessions and school. Frankly, it doesn't add up. BTW, the friend confirms that at El Camino at least, he was studying dentistry.
By Brad on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 12:52 am:
** BTW, the friend confirms that at El Camino at least, he was studying dentistry. **
Actually, he probably was studying "Pre-Dentistry." According to El Camino's website, that's one of the programs in which they offer an A.S. (Associate of Science) degree. Hey, I wonder if Al got an A.S. degree from there?
Brad
By Textus (Textus) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:13 am:
Is Al in any of the regional versions of Who's Who? Also, it has always been assumed that dentistry meant to eventually pursue a DDS. Could he, in fact, have been pursueing being a hygenicist or technician career, which involves higher education but not at the same level?
By Phlip (Phlip) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:20 am:
The part of Gary Winfrey's recollection that seems to conflict with other memories of the principles is that six months (or so) transpired between The Islanders first visit to Melrose, and the second (when they were given Bruce Morgan's "Rio Grande")...
From Brian's autobiography "Wouldn't It Be Nice" (Todd Gold)...
"Standing on the edge of the El Camino athletic field, Al and I might have been two college freshmen, but our conversation was exactly as it had been during high school. Sports, cars, chicks, and my forte, music. He wanted to get together to play... We ended up walking into the nurse's room which doubled as the football team's training room, and there we collected a couple of pals, forming a crude group... But the bass singer was flat and the fullback, who had just sprained his knee... was flat on his back in bed..."
BRIAN: "Hey Al, why don't you come over to my house and I'll put us together with my cousin Mike and my brother Carl"
AL: "They sing?"
BRIAN: "Yeah, Mike sings good bass, and Carl can play the guitar and sing great."
(PHLIP's NOTE: Brian, Mike, and Maureen Love had been rehearsing songs together for a few months).
"Al looked puzzled. He didn't know Mike. But Carl had been only twelve the last time Al had seen him play guitar at a high school assembly..."
(PHLIP's NOTE: That would presumably be the Carl and the Passions "Hully Gully/Carol Hess for Student Body Prssident" performance from Spring 1959).
From "The Beach Boys" (Byron Preiss)...
ALAN: "I bumped into Brian on campus one day. Smash-o. We crossed paths. Litterally. I said, 'Brian, this is IT. We have to get together.' So we went into the music room between classes and sang Four Freshmen songs. When we got kicked out of the music room we'd finish up in the nurse's quarters. Then he told me more about his brothers... 'Carl, he's about twelve and he really sings good and plays the guitar too.' So I met the Wilson boys and Mike Love."
BRIAN: "It was Al who got us on the track leading to the recording studio. One day, just after we had all started singing together, he and his friend, Gary Winfrey, stopped by the house to see if I was home. They wanted to see if I was interested in helping out on a folk song they wanted to record, 'Sloop John B.' Although I wasn't home, Al and Gary spoke to my dad about finding a publisher who might be interested in recording the song. A few days later, Dad called Al's house and talked with his mom."
OK
PHLIP's POINT: If Al's introduction to Hite Morgan (via Murry Wilson) occurred AFTER Al and Brian bumped into each other at El Camino (lsate June 1961?) and AFTER Al had already started hanging out with Brian, Mike, and Carl, then The Islanders initial visit to Melrose (Morgan) occurred in the Summer of 1961 (not the Summer of 1960). And here would be the events that followed:
1. Alan, Gary, and Keith meet with the Morgans, audition Kingston Trio songs, are told they might get a call later. This would have occurred maybe around July 1st.
2. Six WEEKS (not six months) later (around mid-August), Alan, Gary, and Keith get a call from the Morgans. They are asked to work on "Rio Grande" (composed by Bruce Morgan).
3. The Islanders have problems with "Rio Grande." Alan, Gary, and Keith ask Brian for help (around August 20th).
4. The Islanders split up (Gary and Keith are replaced by Mike and Carl), and the new group visits Melrose (end of August) to audition "Sloop John B" (for some reason, "Rio Grande" has been abandoned).
5. While there, the new group is told by the Morgans that they need to record ORIGINAL material.
6. Dennis suggests they do "Surfin'," a song Brian has already started (this would be the tune--with Jan & Dean-style "bomps" & "dips" added and new "surf" lyrics by Mike--that that got Brian a "F" in Fred Morgan's music class at Hawthorne High in 1960).
7. Murry and Audree travel to Mexico City witb the Havens over Labor Day 1961. While the Wilsons are away, the new group rents instruments and rehearse "Surfin'."
8. Murry Wilson returns from Mexico, hears the new song, freaks out, then urges the group to take it to the Morgans.
9. First Beach Boys (Pendletones) recording (rehearsal) session on September 15th at Hite Morgan's home studio on Melrose.
Again, this is just a working hypothesis.
By Brad on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 10:01 am:
I agree with you, Phlip, that what you've laid out would seem to be the logical sequence of things given what we now know. In fact, if you look back up a few posts, you'll see you've pretty much mirrored my proposed chronology for that time period (albeit in greater detail):
> 6/61 - Al returns to CA, revives The Islanders (with Gary & Don), enrolls at El
> Camino College and meets Brian again
> Summer 1961 - Alan & Gary ask Audrey about a contact in the music industry,
> approach Hite Morgan and are called back weeks (not months) later to audition
> "Rio Grande" (with Keith Lent)
> 9/61 - Alan (with the Wilson brothers and Mike Love) re-auditions for the
> Morgans twice and helps form the Beach Boys, "Surfin'" demo recorded
We're definitely in agreement!
By Phlip (Phlip) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 10:36 am:
Brad: This thread's gettin' kind of long, but I still should have taken the time to re-read your earlier posts more carefully. Sorry about that.
And I need to correct the date of the Carl and the Passions performance at the Hawthorne High School assembly. That would be Spring 1960 (not Spring 1959, as I erroneously stated), as "Hully Gully" was a local hit in L. A. in 1960, not 1959. So Carl would have actually been 13 (not 12) at the time.
Carl would then have entered Hawthorne High as a freshman in the Fall of 1960, and attended Hawthorne 'til he trasferred to Hollywood Professional School (which he attended with the Rovell sisters)... when?... 1962?... or 1963?
Also, other than coaching a little league team (where he met Judy Bowles, whose brother was on the team) and harmonizing with Mike and Maureen Love, what WAS Brian doing from June 1960 until June 1961? Was he working at Murry's shop, or delivering pizzas, or maybe working as a "Good Humor" man? Was he in fact attending El Camino CC full-time during that period, or (as is stated in the Beach Boys sometimes-fractured history) did he quit after only one semester in 1960 (which seems unlikely, else how did Al run into him at El Camino in June or July 1961?)?
By Brad on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:13 am:
** what WAS Brian doing from June 1960 until June 1961? Was he working at Murry's shop, or delivering pizzas, or maybe working as a "Good Humor" man? **
Personally, I love the idea of Brian working as a Good Humor man! Wonderful idea! LOL!
** Was he in fact attending El Camino CC full-time during that period, or (as is stated in the Beach Boys sometimes-fractured history) did he quit after only one semester in 1960 (which seems unlikely, else how did Al run into him at El Camino in June or July 1961?)? **
I think he almost had to have been enrolled at El Camino. I guess it's possible that he laid out a year (1960-61), then started college, but it would be fairly unusual for somebody to begin their college career with the short Summer session. Almost religiously, most freshmen start with the Fall semester.
While the book is far from being a reliable source, these quotes from Brian's "autobiography" support the idea he started school in the fall of 1960 and spent more than a single semester at El Camino:
"After graduating from high school, I spent the sumer working odd jobs and waiting for my first semester of college to begin. In the fall, I started El Camino Junior College, taking history, Spanish and psychology. I planned on spending a couple of years at El Camino and then transferring to a larger local university."
and, after "Surfin'" charted in Billboard:
"I began to think about quitting El Camino and devoting myself full-time to the Beach Boys, knowing that 'Surfin'' represented only the tip of my talent."
Brad
By AGD (Agd) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:15 am:
The info for Brian dropping out of ECC after a semester is apparently wrong - I got it from... err, well, I've just checked, and it wasn't from either Leaf, White or Gaines, or even the pseudobiography, but in checking I discovered the reverse is true: in the Leaf book, in a 1964 interview Brian states unequivocally, (p.27, revised edition 1985) "I wasn't going to sit there and let any guy tell me that pop music is bad... After a year and a half I became a college drop-out, and I'm not sorry". So problem apparently solved - from 9/61 to circa 3/62, Brian was a student at El Camino, majoring in psychology with additional music & Spanish courses. Thus meeting Al in summer 1961 was entirely possible. Of course, this also means that my joke about Alan returning to CA, reviving the Islanders, doing an audition and helping to form The Pendletones at something approaching the speed of sound is seriously close to being accurate !
By Textus (Textus) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:21 am:
Is this the BMI mag profile? Am I remembering that it was 1964, or the Billboard one that I think Ren Grevatt wrote? (Ren wrote one of them; this was several years before he became the Dead's publicist.) I have that photocopied somewhere.
What I drew was that Brian did not take any music courses at college level, and that he took mostly biz courses (no doubt with eye toward taking over the machine shop). But this is from memory.
Also, as I've mentioned before, I very much doubt that "Surfin" was the Fred Morgan sonata assignment. I think it was the early chords to "Surfer Girl," but my "proof" is logic more than evidence.
By AGD (Agd) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:38 am:
Ah, now there I do remember - 'twas Fred Morgan himself who stated that what Brian turned in was "Surfin'", and as a music teacher, I think he'd have made further comment had one of his most promising pupils turned in something so obviously based on "When You Wish Upon A Star".
By Brad on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 03:56 pm:
AGD wrote:
** in the Leaf book, in a 1964 interview Brian states unequivocally, (p.27, revised edition 1985) "I wasn't going to sit there and let any guy tell me that pop music is bad... After a year and a half I became a college drop-out, and I'm not sorry". So problem apparently solved - from 9/61 to circa 3/62, Brian was a student at El Camino, majoring in psychology with additional music & Spanish courses. **
Not trying to be picky, but the way I figure it Brian would have started at ECC in September 1960 (he graduated from Hawthorne High in June 1960). A year-and-a-half would put him attending through the entire 1960-61 school year, the Summer 1961 session (that's when he ran into Al) and the Fall 1961 semester, which ended Jan. 26, 1962. Incredibly, that jibes perfectly with the story in his "autobiography" about him "quitting El Camino and devoting myself full-time to the Beach Boys" after "Surfin'" charted in Billboard (beginning Jan. 13, 1962).
** Of course, this also means that my joke about Alan returning to CA, reviving the Islanders, doing an audition and helping to form The Pendletones at something approaching the speed of sound is seriously close to being accurate! **
Not just "seriously close," but seemingly right on the money! What an incredible three months between June 11, 1961 (when Ferris Institute's Spring quarter ended) and Sept. 15, 1961 (when Hite Morgan recorded The Beach Boys for the first time)!
By AGD (Agd) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 04:20 pm:
"Not trying to be picky, but the way I figure it Brian would have started at ECC in September 1960"
Exactly what I intended to say... of course it would have been better had I hit the '0' instead of the '1' !
A thought - I hope someone's archiving both this thread and the previous one (BB history 101).
By Calsaga (Calsaga) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 04:44 pm:
What if?
June 1960- Brian and Al graduate from Hawthorne High
July 1960- Photo taken of the Islanders (with Bob Barrow)
August 1960- Al's parent move to Michigan, Bob Barrow leaves for college.
Early Sept. 1960- Al leaves to attend Ferris U.
Dec. 17- Jan. 3, 1961- Al returns to LA for Winter break, runs into Brian at El Camino (Brian and Al would both be Freshman and it's possible that there would have been a football game). It would also make it possible for ther Islanders to give the Morgans a demo tape Early 1961 (Jan.). Al then goes back to Ferris. About six months transpire.
After June 11, 1961- Al returns from Ferris U and the Morgans contact him about the Islanders recording a demo of the folk song Rio Grand. Then they go to Brian for help with the song.
Barb
By Brad on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:27 pm:
One major problem that I see is: why would Al have returned to LA for Winter break? Surely, he'd have spent Christmas with his family, and they were in Michigan. (Let's remember that we're talking about a guy who, according to his mom, hitchhiked from California to Michigan to be with his family after they moved away.)
Also, check out the comments from Al that I quoted earlier from the 1974 BB documentary. Al stated, "I bumped into him [Brian] at El Camino College. In my second year of college, I cam back west. My father was teaching at this other place. We came back to California to pursue another line of work, and I ended up back in Los Angeles, went to El Camino, and I was walking across the campus and, boom, there was Brian." So Al very clearly indicates he bumped into Brian after moving back to the West Coast with his family and at a time when he was enrolled at El Camino. If you accept what Al said, that means it had to be after June 11, 1961.
Furthermore, in that same BBC documentary, Al said that when he bumped into Brian on the El Camino campus, it had been "a year previous in a hamburger stand" since he'd last seen him. If we were to accept the scenario that Al and Brian bumped into each other in December 1960 or January 1961, "a year previous" would put them back in their senior year in high school, and surely they'd have seen each other in classes or in the hallways or at an assembly, rather than at a hamburger stand.
So, for those reasons, I just don't think it's a reasonable scenario that the first overture to Hite Morgan occured during Al's Winter break at the end of 1960.
Brad
By ????? on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:16 pm:
Wow, this thread has accomplished the impossible.
It's made Al Jardine and his early years interesting!
Keep it up. Kudos to everyone (esp. Brad and ADG)
for putting the timeline together.
Interesting that Dennis and Al were hanging out together early on. Those two are polar opposites.
Although they seemed to have had mutual respect for each other (e.g. Dennis/Al on the Hawthorne C.D. tracks complementing each others songcraft, Al in EH about to say Dennis couldn't sing, but catching himself). Now only one important question remains, what kind of car did Al buy with Dennis after the Winfrey loan? Brad if you can find that out, I'll cover the total research cost of your next book;)
By Phlip (Phlip) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 09:02 pm:
Eric: It's best not to dare Brad like that... Unless you're prepared to make a substantial investment.
By AGD (Agd) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:05 pm:
This from Gary, after I filled him in on our latest collaborative thoughts: he graduated in June 1959 and attended ECC from 9/59 - 6/63. Alan, Brian, Keith Lent & Bob Barrow all graduated the next year. Alan attended El Camino from Sept 1961 through sometime in late 1962 or early 1963, and Gary remembers seeing Brian and Al and singing together at the Nurse's office in early Sept 1961.
In his own words, "as for the date of the first time we met Hite Morgan. I said we dropped off a tape of "Wreck of the Hesperus" and six months or so later they called. So it would have to have been August or Sept 1960 when we dropped the tape since in Jan 1961 Al was at Ferris." Which makes sense, and which Brad has already postulated.
Gary thinks it was summer or early fall of '61 for the "Rio Grande" session, so as Brad (again !) rightly says, what a few weeks it must have been that summer of 1961
So, one missing piece of the puzzle - when did the Morgans set up their home studio ? I think I know a man who knows a man who could well know... but he's away on a business trip right now. Patience, boy... patience.
Of course, if anyone out there has any ideas about it, we're very receptive !
Oh yeah, the car - Gary recalls it was a '60 Chevvy 326, metal flake blue with a Corvette grille, competition clutch with a four on the floor, hot with ram induction.
You're right - I'm lying. He doesn't recall if it was for a car or not.
By Phlip (Phlip) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 07:52 am:
AGD: I'm doing my best to wrest the Cabin's Annual Anal Award from you for 2002!
(Hey, if posters on the "Smile Shop" board can endlessly debate "Smile," then we can endlessly debate "Surfin'"!)...
So you're gonna love this! Maybe everybody else understands the new chronology, but now I'm REALLY confused!
(From my post of about 24 hours ago)...
BRIAN: "It was Al who got us on the track leading to the recording studio. One day, just after we had all started singing together (PHLIP'S NOTE: This was AFTER Brian and Al bumped into each other at ECC), he and his friend, Gary Winfrey, stopped by the house to see if I was home. They wanted to see if I was interested in helping out on a folk song they wanted to record, 'Sloop John B.' Although I wasn't home, Al and Gary spoke to my dad about finding a publisher who might be interested in recording the song. A few days later, Dad called Al's house and talked with his mom."
OK
PHLIP's POINT: If Al's introduction to Hite Morgan (via Murry Wilson) occurred AFTER Al and Brian bumped into each other at El Camino (late June 1961?) and AFTER Al had already started hanging out with Brian, Mike, and Carl, then The Islanders initial visit to Melrose (Morgan) occurred in the Summer of 1961 (not the Summer of 1960).
That was my post from yesterday, and Brad concurred.
But Gary Winfrey's latest information conflicts with that.
Here's why.
If The Islanders made their Murry Wilson-Hite Morgan connection in 1960, then it occurred a year BEFORE Al bumped into Brian at El Camino. (According to Brian, Al and Gary came by the Wilson house looking for Brian--and made their Murry connection--AFTER Al and Brian bumped into each other at ECC). Does this mean Al bumped into Brian at ECC sometime in the Summer of 1960, BEFORE Al left for Michigan (Ferris Institute)? And was the nurse's quarters story from 1960, not 1961? If Gary Winfrey remembers Brian and Al singing in the nurse's quarters at ECC in September 1961, this would have been AFTER the Labor Day '61 "Surfin'" rehearsal at the Wilson house, and very close to (if not after) the first Morgan recording rehearsal on September 15th. Did Brian and Al sing at the nurse's quarters on a regular basis?
Is is possible the Islanders (Al, Gary, and Keith) made their intial "Murry Wilson/Hite Morgan" connection as late as August 1961 (just after Al and Brian bumped into each other), dropped off "The Wreck of the Hesperus," and then got "called back" to Melrose (Morgan) in late 1961, AFTER the Beach Boys recording session of October 8th, but before "Surfin'" was released (and became a local hit) in December 1961. Maybe Al was still more of an "Islander" than a "Beach Boy" as late as December 1961? After all, until "Surfin'" was released and became a hit, who woulda thunk the Beach Boys would become what they became? Even Al doubted the future of the Beach Boys as late as February 1962 (AFTER "Surfin'" had hit #3 on KFWB, when he declined to remain with the group).
One point in favor of this theory is that Al and Brian bumping into each other in August or September 1960 or August 1961 (instead of June or July 1961) would jibe with Al and Brian sharing the nurse's quarters with an injured football player, because college football teams would not have been allowed to have an official organized "Fall Practice" until sometime in August.
If Brian and Al bumped into each other in August 1961, then the Beach Boys came together in a matter of DAYS (which actually seems more plausible to me than weeks or months), SIMULTANEOUS with Al's continued involvement with the Islanders (Gary and Keith).
If Al and Brian bumped into each other in September 1960 (just after Al and Brian graduated from Hawthorne High, and just before Al left for Michigan), then that would fit all of Gary's recollections, but would mean there was a one year gap between Al and Brian's meeting at ECC, and Al jammin' with Brian, Mike, and Carl at the Wilson house, OR, a one year gap between the "meeting" at ECC and Al jammin' with the guys, and the eventual formation of the Beach Boys a year later in August 1961. It would also mean Al was either visiting the ECC campus (he was supposed to enroll at Pepperdine in September), OR was taking a class or two while waiting to enroll at Pepperdine. Except if he had a football scholarship at Pepperdine, he would have been working out with the Pepperdine football team in August and September. Unless he had already decided not to attend Pepperdine (instead opting to attend ECC in the Summer of 1960, before impulsively leaving for Michigan in September).
So does Ferris show that Alan Jardine transferred any credits from ECC when he enrolled in September 1960?
I hope SOMEBODY has told Al Jardine about this thread. I'll bet he hasn't gotten this much attention in his whole life.
By AGD (Agd) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 03:44 pm:
OK, the full version is now up on the webpage at:
http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/Beginning.html
"So does Ferris show that Alan Jardine transferred any credits from ECC when he enrolled in September 1960?"
No, because he went straight to Ferris from Hawthorne High. Then he went from Ferris to ECC in the fall of 1961. As for working out at Pepperdine with the football team, Gary doesn't recall anything about a football scolarship, and as Alan was living with the Winfrey family before he headed out to ferris, I think this is a significant point. Alan's mom is the sole source for the Pepperdine part of the tale.
Regarding Brian's statement about "Sloop John B" (and allowing for it being from a largely discredited book), it's evident that he's talking about the summer 1961 audition, and conflating it with the summer 1960 suggestion by Audree that Alan & Gary go see Hite. (Conflating - isn't that a great word ?). Remember, Todd Gold wrote this and doubtless melded the two stories into one.
By Brad on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 03:42 am:
AGD wrote:
** In his own words, "as for the date of the first time we met Hite Morgan. I said we dropped off a tape of "Wreck of the Hesperus" and six months or so later they called. So it would have to have been August or Sept 1960 when we dropped the tape since in Jan 1961 Al was at Ferris." Which makes sense, and which Brad has already postulated. **
Yeah, I postulated it, but that was early on, before we'd pulled together a lot more information. I admit that on the face of things, it looks like it fits that Al's and Gary's initial contact with Hite Morgan was in the summer of 1960, but I'm not so sure. I'm bothered by the fact that Al has indicated he didn't mean the rest of the Wilson family (besides Brian) until after he and Brian bumped into each other on the ECC campus -- which I think we've pretty firmly established had to be sometime during the summer of 1961.
Also, Al himself has indicated that when he bumped into Brian at ECC, it'd been "a year previous in a hamburger stand" since he'd last seen him." That would have been sometime in the summer of 1960, which would jibe with Al having been away at Ferris Institute in Michigan, but don't you think that if Audrey and/or Murry had directed him to Hite at about that same time, he'd have said something about it? After all, he was talking about the events that led up to the formation of The Beach Boys, and the initial contact with Hite Morgan was a crucial event!
The picture Al's painted of the relationship between him and Brian prior to their chance re-meeting at ECC makes them almost virtual strangers. He's said that he and Brian ran in different crowds in high school and belonged to "rival" music groups. The ONLY contact between them seems to have been the football accident in which Al's leg was broken and Al seeing Brian perform at a school assembly. So where would Al have gotten the familiarity to approach Brian's parents just a couple of months after high school graduation?
Finally, if we accept Gary's recollection on this event, WHEN was it that Hite called back? If the tape had been dropped off in the summer of 1960, then it couldn't have been SIX months after that -- Al was in Michigan at that time, and reading between the lines of what Gary says, he seems to indicate that Al was local and available to respond immediately to Hite's callback. So, it would have to be more like ELEVEN or TWELVE months after they dropped off the tape that Hite called back! And why would they have dropped off a tape with Hite at that time anyway, when Alan was preparing to move and go to college in Michigan in just a few short weeks? And why would they have had to recruit Keith Lent to sing with them at that point, when Bob Barrow would still have been around (he didn't go off to college until the same time Al did)?
Sorry, but there are just too many little things that don't add up to allow me to accept the premise that Al & Gary made initial contact with Hite Morgan in the summer of 1960. Rather, I think that it was in the summer of 1961, after Al bumped into Brian on the ECC campus. All of the little details fall into place, except for the fact that Gary remembers there was a six-month gap between his and Al's initial contact with Hite and their being called back -- and I'm not sure how much stock we can place in that specific recollection. I hate to say it, but Gary's memories haven't proven to be even close to 100 percent accurate and he's done a fair amount of revising since additional facts have started to surface. So why couldn't he also be wrong about how long the gap was? Maybe not six months, but rather something more like six weeks?
** So, one missing piece of the puzzle - when did the Morgans set up their home studio ? [...] Patience, boy... patience. **
Actually, I think I already know enough about the history of Hite's studios to resolve that question without trying to get an answer out of Bruce. Hite's Mayberry Street home studio -- a mono facility and the location of the Pendletons' demo session on Sept. 15, 1961 -- had been up and running for at least several years by that time. It was their Stereo Masters studio on Melrose Avenue -- a stereo facility at which the vocals for the Kenny & The Cadets sides were overdubbed -- that wasn't set up until 1961 or early 1962. If Al & Gary went to Hite's home studio, then the date that studio was set up isn't going to help us -- it was well before the summer of 1960.
Brad
By Brad on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 03:48 am:
Andrew, is this right?
** This from Gary, after I filled him in on our latest collaborative thoughts: he graduated in June 1959 and attended ECC from 9/59 - 6/63. **
He attended El Camino College, a TWO-YEAR facility, for FOUR YEARS -- 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62 and 1962-63?!!! Was he attending only part-time or what? Phlip questioned why Al might have been attending ECC for a third year; how do we rationalize Gary attending for four years?
Brad
By AGD (Agd) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 04:22 am:
That's what he said. Looks like a few more questions might be in order.
Looks like I've got some more re-writing to do as well.
By Phlip (Phlip) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 09:16 am:
Again, from the 1974 BBC documentary cited earlier by Brad:
ALAN: "Up to that point [where he'd bumped into Brian on the El Camino campus], I had seen Brian, I think, a year previous in a hamburger stand, if you can believe that. And I said -- I dropped the word then -- I said, 'Let's get together, Brian, I'm going back east for a year.' So he said, 'Fine, I'll see you later,' you know. So this was later."
From "The Beach Boys" (Byron Preiss)...
ALAN: "I bumped into Brian on campus one day. Smash-o. We crossed paths. Litterally. I said, 'Brian, this is IT. We have to get together.' So we went into the music room between classes and sang Four Freshmen songs. When we got kicked out of the music room we'd finish up in the nurse's quarters. Then he told me more about his brothers... 'Carl, he's about twelve and he really sings good and plays the guitar too.' So I met the Wilson boys and Mike Love."
From the Todd Gold "autobiography"...
BRIAN: "It was Al who got us on the track leading to the recording studio. One day, just after we had all started singing together, he and his friend, Gary Winfrey, stopped by the house to see if I was home. They wanted to see if I was interested in helping out on a folk song they wanted to record, 'Sloop John B.'"
(PHLIP's NOTE: Brian probably confused "The Wreck
of the Hesperus" with "Sloop John B").
"Although I wasn't home, Al and Gary spoke to my dad about finding a publisher who might be interested in recording the song. A few days later, Dad called Al's house and talked with his mom."
Here is my point, and I believe it is important:
Murry and Audree gave the Islanders Hite Morgan's name and phone number AFTER Al and Brian "bumped into each other" at El Camino... No EARLIER than June 1961 (and probably more like the first week of August, if football practice was under way... or maybe even later!).
In fact, if it wasn't for the legendary Mexico City trip over Labor Day and the "rehearsal" at Morgan's home studio dated "September 15th," the week of September 11th (the first week of the Fall Semester at ECC) makes even MORE sense for Brian and Al running into each other. In fact, maybe that's what happened... .
Why? The Jardines returned from Michigan after the end of the Spring semester at Ferris. They may not have left immediately. Maybe they visited family in Ohio first. They probably drove back. Donald and Virginia may have taken advantage of the occasion to spend some quality time with the kids (especially Al,who would soon be out of the house). So stops at the Petrified Forest, the Painted Desert, the Grand Canyon, and Louie's Lizard Farm would have been an irresistable MUST for any American family driving cross-country. Then they moved into a new house in Torrance. So I would doubt that Al got back in time to enroll at El Camino for the Summer Semester (June 21, right?). More likely Al's first appearance at El Camino was September 11th (the first day of the Fall Semester). And everything happened--VERY QUICKLY, for sure--after that.
1. Monday, September 11th: Al bumps into Brian. They rehearse at the nurse's office with Gary Winfrey and an injured fullback (who sang bass). WE know it's a school day (Al says he bumped into Brian "between classes"), and Brian says the player injured his knee "at the afternoon's football scrimmage"... probably late afternoon... and there is NO WAY a college football team would be having a "scrimmage" in July... August, sure. But not July. And school was NOT IN SESSION between August 2 and September 11. (Remember, it was "between classes" that Al and Brian bumped into each other).
2. Brian is impressed by Al and Gary, but not by the bass singin' fullback. Brian invites Al over to the Wilson house to meet Mike and Carl. Maybe he goes there later that night (September 11th) or the next day (Tuesday September 12th).
He also meets Murry and Audree for the first time.
3. Tuesday September 12th or Wednesday September 13th: Now feeling as though they are friends of Brian's (and the rest of the family), Al and Gary stop by the Wilson house with "The Wreck of the Hesperus" to ask Brian for help. Brian isn't home. Murry and Audree give Al Hite Morgan's name and number.
4. That evening (Tuesday September 12th or Wednesday September 13th), or maybe later that week, the Islanders (Al, Gary, and Don or Keith) audition for Hite and Dorinda Morgan. Hite & Dorinda tell the Islanders that they can't do anything for them "right now," but they'll call them if anything comes up. Demoralized, the Islanders break up (temporarily).
5. Impressed by Al's determination and ambition (something he wishes he could see more in Brian),
Murry calls Al and urges him to come over to the house and work with Brian.
6. The Pendletones (Beach Boys) start to jam in earnest. Murry tells them to go see Hite.
From the Byron Preiss book:
DORINDA MORGAN: "Murry called us up and said, 'See if you can do something with him (Brian)... Audree and I are going to Mexico City.""
7. Later that same week (probably Friday afternoon after school)--Dorinda says it was "a dreary September day in L. A."--maybe we can check the weather reports from that period, because there couldn't have been too many dreary L. A. days in September--the Pendletones audition for the Morgans. They play a couple of "Top Ten" tunes. The Morgans encourage them to do something original, and they give the boys "Luau" (written by their son, Bruce). Dennis suggests "Surfin'." Brian and Mike finish it that night. Meanwhile, Murry and Audree are in Mexico City with the Havens.
(NOTE: Here is the first Beach Boys Blaspheme... This would be the weekend of September 15-17, NOT the Labor Day weekend).
8. With the help of Alan's mom, Brian and the guys rent instruments (drum kit and stand-up bass). They rehearse "Surfin."
9. Murry and Audree return home late Sunday (September 17th). Murry's initial anger turns to excitement, and he tells the boys to get themselves over to Hite's STAT.
10. Sometime during the next week (September 18-25), the Pendletones play Surfin' for the Morgans at their home studio on Mayberry Street. Hite books studio time at World Pacific for October 3rd.
(NOTE: This is the second blastephemy... maybe the "rehearsal" session is September 25, NOT September 15... "15" versus "25"... an easy typo to make).
Why not? Is the Mexico City trip really locked into the Labor Day weekend? And is the "Surfin" rehearsal at the Morgan's home studio for sure from September 15? Could it maybe have been more like September 25 instead? Or the "weekend" of September 15th? Because all we know for sure (per AFM contract) is that the recording session at World Pacific occurred on October 3rd.
The date of September 15th was NOT taken from an official AFM contract, right?
11. Sometime in March 1962 (six months after their initial audition, and just AFTER Al has left the Beach Boys), Hite calls Gary and Al and offers "Rio Grande" to the Islanders. Al, Gary and Don continue to rehearse over the next year, but nothing comes of it.
12. Al drifts back into the Beach Boys tent during the "Surfin' USA" sessions (January-February 1963), and returns (permanently) in June 1963, when Brian "retires" from touring.
After all, if the long-held "Al left the Beach Boys in 1962 to go to dental school in Michigan" legend proved to be inaccurate, why not the date of Murry & Audree's Mexico City trip, and the date of the "Surfin'" rehearsal session at Morgan's home studio?
By Phlip (Phlip) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 09:58 am:
I have sent an E-MAIL to the National Weather Service in L. A. requesting southland weather reports from August and September 1961. We're looking for a "dreary/overcast" day. I'll let you know what I find out. If NOAA doesn't respond, I'll try the Los Angeles Public Library reference/peroiodicals, or the L. A. historical Society.
Don't worry, AGD. We're gonna nail this sucka.
By Mikie (Mikie) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 10:59 am:
Hey, did any o' you guys ask Al yet?
By Cam Mott on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 11:58 am:
Finally something I can help with.
In LA Co. the Palmdale station reported rain on August 4, 5, 23 and 24 and no precip in September. In Orange Co. the Tustin station reported rain on Aug. 5 and Sept. 22. Yorba Linda reported a thunderstorm with no measurably precip on Aug. 4 and rain on Sept. 21. Santa Ana reported no measurable precip for August through September. That's from UofC records, maybe NOAA has more detailed records.
By ???? on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 02:07 pm:
I don't think anybody has/or will Mikie......
Poor Al, first waiting for a bus
and now a phone call that will
probably never come.
By AGD (Agd) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 04:06 pm:
Asking Alan is plan B - I have the technology...
Phlip, I can see where you're coming from - if Alan went to Ferris before the BB formed and not after, then is the Labor Day rehersal also possibly invalid ? Reasonable lateral thinking. However, I can't really that the 15/25 typo on board - too convienient, too pat (I'm thinking out loud here). I'm essentially with Brad, in that Gary could well be saying six months but meaning six weeks. I'm in the process of (delicately) asking him about this, and about spending four years at a two-year college.
Also this - "Al and Gary stop by the Wilson house with "The Wreck of the Hesperus" to ask Brian for help". That should read "Rio Grande" - they'd already recorded "TWOTH" offf their own bat (presumably on a domestic recorder - maybe even a Wollensak )and played it for Hite.
The other problem I have is with the placing of any reliance on 'Brian's' recollections as expounded in "WIBN".
Dorinda's recollections are interesting. For one, she mentioins they were in the Melrose office, not their house, and implies that the audition was there as well, which is apparently not so. There's one other possibly useful bit of info, which could well mean Phlip is right about a typo were it not too extreme. Check this:
"When Murry & Audree returned from a vacation they were taking in Mexico, the boys were on the Top Ten list at Music City"
So... either Murry & Audree took two trips to Mexico in the space of three months... or they didn't go to Mexico with the Havens at all... or Dorinda was mistaken. Could someone post the Whitcombe article, or is it on the net somewhere ?
Sorry for the random nature of these musings - it's late and I'm tired.
By AGD (Agd) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 04:11 pm:
One last one for today:
"1. Monday, September 11th: Al bumps into Brian. They rehearse at the nurse's office with Gary Winfrey and an injured fullback (who sang bass). WE know it's a school day (Al says he bumped into Brian "between classes"), and Brian says the player injured his knee "at the afternoon's football scrimmage"... probably late afternoon... and there is NO WAY a college football team would be having a "scrimmage" in July... August, sure. But not July. And school was NOT IN SESSION between August 2 and September 11. (Remember, it was "between classes" that Al and Brian bumped into each other)."
In a 1964 interview, Brian remembered that they spent two weeks in August rehearsing in his music room, which fits better with the Labor Day story.
By Susan on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 04:42 pm:
Why ask Alan? It's WAY more fun to watch the layers be pulled aside......and i'm guessing it's a hoot and a half to be on the chase! Asking Alan takes all the fun out of it!
CONFIRM with Alan....
By Cam Mott on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 05:42 pm:
Oh yeah, I didn't notice it before but UofC's resource has a designation for "cloudy" but it doesn't show in any of the stations mentioned records for September 1961. September 22 was a Friday in 1961 with .02 inches of rain in Orange Co.. However conditions vary from station to station within counties so the weather could have been different where Dorinda was.
By AGD (Agd) on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 11:40 pm:
Here's an update from Gary: regarding his being at ECC for four years, he replied:
"Yes El Camino is a two year college if you take a full load each semester. There is no time limit [and] I was taking less credits and working."
As for the dating of the first meeting with the Morgans:
"I remember that we took the tape and it seemed like a long time passed before hearing back from the Morgans. Much longer than the 3 months from which Al returned (mid June 1961) to when "Surfin" was recorded. I could be wrong, but I just remember that it seemed a long time from the time we took the tape until the audition. We just kind of forgot about the whole thing. I also have a problem with the timing as Al was leaving for college. The only thing I can think of was that Al really didn't want to go Michigan and the only reason he did was that his parents moved back there. If we got a recording contract he probably would have stayed in Southern Calif. I haven't heard from Al, but believe me I have a few questions for him. If I had to choose between the two dates Summer 1960 or 1961 I would choose 1960 because a lot of events would have to have taken place in The Summer of 1961 and I think that I would have remembered. Just another thought - Bob would have already left in August 1960 as they start football practice well before the term begins. The first game is usually played the first weekend after the term begins [note - Bob Barrow attended and graduated from Brigham Young University under a football scholarship]. Also since we got the Hite Morgan idea from Brian's mother (while visiting Brian), that means Al and Brian would have seen each other a couple of months before the Fall School Term 1961, but when they saw each other at El Camino a lot of time had passed between seeing each other."
So, more food for thought. get stuck in, guys
Oh, and a final line from Gary:
"BTW I have found the recording of "Wreck of the Hesperus" !"
Opening track of the next BB rarities project ?
I'll say this for Gary - if it were me being pestered by some limey about things that happened 40+ years ago, and who kept coming back and saying, in essence, "no, you're wrong about that" every time I told him something else, I'd have pulled the modem cable out a long time ago. This man has the patience of Job.
By Brad on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 02:13 am:
Phlip wrote:
** maybe the "rehearsal" session is September 25, NOT September 15... "15" versus "25"... an easy typo to make **
Except that it's not a typed date on the original audition tape box. It's handwritten, and I find it nearly impossible to believe that somebody could misdate something by hand by 10 days! One or two days, maybe, but not 10!
So, my analysis is that what you've proposed simply won't stand up, Phlip. The acoustic audtion tapes were recorded Sept. 15, 1961, the timing of which tends to support the Labor Day weekend story. Which means that Al's bumping into Brian and the initial sessions with Hite Morgan had to be sometime earlier during the Summer of 1961.
AGD quoted Gary Winfrey:
** "I also have a problem with the timing as Al was leaving for college. The only thing I can think of was that Al really didn't want to go Michigan and the only reason he did was that his parents moved back there." **
Which, to some degree, fits with Virginia Jardine's recollections:
"We moved to Big Rapids, Michigan. [...] We left the city. We wanted Al to come with us. He didn't want to leave, he was happy where he was. So he got this football scholarship at Pepperdine. He decided to stay there and use the scholarship. But I don't know ... he hitchiked across, hitchhiked to join us in Big Rapids."
The only piece of information that seems to contradict her recollections (as well as Gary's statement) is the information I got from Ferris State that Al's acceptance into the school was approved in June 1960. That means that at the time Al graduated from high school, the Jardines already knew they'd be moving there during the summer and that Al would be attending school there in the fall. Of course, acceptance at Ferris could have been just a fallback plan for Al if nothing else panned out, so I'm not going to argue that the Ferris acceptance date precludes the scenario that Gary paints. He was there, I wasn't, and his story does seem reasonable.
More from Gary Winfrey (via AGD):
** "If I had to choose between the two dates Summer 1960 or 1961 I would choose 1960 because a lot of events would have to have taken place in The Summer of 1961 and I think that I would have remembered. Just another thought - Bob would have already left in August 1960 as they start football practice well before the term begins. The first game is usually played the first weekend after the term begins [note - Bob Barrow attended and graduated from Brigham Young University under a football scholarship]. Also since we got the Hite Morgan idea from Brian's mother (while visiting Brian), that means Al and Brian would have seen each other a couple of months before the Fall School Term 1961, but when they saw each other at El Camino a lot of time had passed between seeing each other." **
Everything Gary says makes sense, if we make one assumption that differs from the commonly accepted picture of the relationship between Al and Brian at that time. As I pointed out further up in this thread, the relationship prior to their re-meeting at ECC has been depicted by Al as being that of almost virtual strangers -- i.e., belonging to rival music groups and running in entirely different crowds, with almost no contact. To accept Gary's story changes that somewhat. It means that Brian and Al had a substantial enough relationship immediately after their high school graduation that Al would have dropped by Brian's house looking for him and would have known enough about Brian's parents to ask them about a contact in the music industry. To my mind, that isn't just a casual relationship; that's a friendship that has included some significant amount of conversation. (I know that I didn't immediately tell casual high school acquaintances what my parents did for a living! I can't imagine that Brian would have either.)
But I can accept what Gary says, because it does make sense. It would go a long way toward explaining why Al was so determined in the summer of 1960 (when they met at the hamburger stand) and in the summer of 1961 (when they met again at ECC) to make music with Brian -- i.e., Al had talked with Brian at length, on at least the subject of music, at some earlier point in time, a conversation that must have included the revelation that Brian's dad was something of an established songwriter with contacts in the music industry.
Which brings me back again to Virgina Jardine's interview with Chuck Harter and Alan Boyd, because there's some support there for a more extensive early friendship between Brian and Al:
Q: Did [Al] get serious about music at a certain age and decide that was something he wanted to do?
VJ: Never. He wanted to be a doctor. But then he met Brian on the football team, and Brian was so musical.
Q: When did Al start singing with Brian?
VJ: In high school, when they were seniors.
So, as far as I'm concerned, unless somebody comes up with something concrete that says otherwise, I'm ready to accept that there was a fairly close relationship -- at least on things musical -- between Al and Brian as far back as their senior year in high school (1959-1960). Which then makes it quite reasonable that Gary & Al would drop by Brian's home in the summer of 1960 and ask Audrey about a contact in the music industry.
But even that leaves one unanswered question: If it was late summer 1960 (probably August, after Bob Barrow had left) that Gary & Alan dropped off their tape with Hite, WHEN DID HE CALL THEM BACK? As I've already pointed out, it couldn't have been just six months later (February 1961, when Al would have been in Michigan). Rather, it would have had to be at least TEN or ELEVEN MONTHS later, in June or July 1961, after Al was back from Michigan. That certainly seems to work in the chronology, but would it be possible to run that by Gary for confirmation, Andrew? If he says "okay" to it, then I think we've nailed this series of events down as tight as we're likely to get it.
Brad
By AGD (Agd) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 02:29 am:
Do you ever regret starting something ?
By Phlip (Phlip) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 03:19 am:
From the Geoffrey Himes interview with Carl Wilson (1982):
CARL: In the fall of 1961, my dad and mom went down to Mexico City on a business trip. They left us with $80 for food, spending money and emergencies. As soon as they left, we all got into Brian's car and went down to this music store on Hawthorne Avenue and rented some instruments. Alan's mom rented us a big acoustic bass, an amplifier, a couple guitars. I already had a guitar, a Kay that my dad had got me in Los Angeles. Alan had wanted to start a folk group, so he had been in touch with my dad's publisher, Hite and Dorinda Morgan. So we took our rented instruments down to the Morgans' home studio where they made their demos. In one afternoon, we recorded four songs: a song by the Morgans' son Bruce, one of Alan's folk numbers, one of Brian's Four Freshmen tunes and a song that Brian and Mike had made up called "Surfin'." I played guitar, Alan played upright bass, and Brian played snare drum with a pencil. In fact, he took his shirt off and put it over the drum because it was too loud. Mike was on one microphone and everyone else was on another mic. We sounded so shitty at first; we were so shaky and lame. After all, I was just 14 and a sophomore in high school."
OK.
Notice anything interesting? Like that Murry & Audree's trip to Mexico City and the subsequent renting of the instruments with "emergency food money" relates directly to the Beach Boys (Pendletones) cutting "demos" with Hite Morgan. It happened AT THE SAME TIME. The instruments were NOT used for some ad hoc rehearsal at the Wilson house that pre-dates the recorded rehearsal dated 9-15-61. The legendary "rented instruments" were actually used to cut the very tracks laid down at Morgan's home studio on Friday, September 15th, 1961! So Murry and Audree left for Mexico City about ten days AFTER Labor Day. (If the September 15th date on the tape box is accurate).
And if Dorinda Morgan was correct in her recollection that Murry asked the Morgans to audition the band just as the Wilsons were about to leave for Mexico, then BOTH the audition (where Dennis suggested "Surfin'," and where the Morgans presumably gave the Pendletones "Luau") AND the recorded rehearsal at Morgan's home studio (of September 15th) occurred just AFTER Murry and Audree left for Mexico, probably within a day (or perhaps hours) of each other.
And this means that everything did occur VERY, VERY quickly, once Murry and Audree left town. It means "Surfin'" was written VERY fast.
It also means Al bumping into Brian at El Camino COULD have occurred AFTER the start of the Fall Semester (September 11th), when both classes were in session AND the football team would be practicing.
If Brian's recollection that Murry (or Audree) gave Hite Morgan's name and number to Al and Gary AFTER Brian and Al "bumped into each other" at El Camino is correct, and if the "meeting" at El Camino occurred on or about 9-11-61, then Al and Gary gave the Morgans "The Wreck of the Hesperus" (recorded with Bob Barrow perhaps in July 1961, while Bob was home for the Summer from BYU?) on September 12 or 13, just a couple of days before Murry and Audree left town, and just prior to Al's return to the Morgans with Brian, Mike, Carl, and Dennis (which probably occurred on Thursday, September 14th).
And then Gary Winfrey's recollection that Hite called back about six months later (and had the Islanders rehearse "Rio Grande") would place that event in early 1962, about the time Al left the Beach Boys. That might help explain why Al left the Beach Boys, and why Al was involved in the Kenny & the Cadets session on March 8th... like Val Poliuto, he was not there as a Beach Boy. Rather, Al would have been present because he (and the Islanders) were working with Hite Morgan on "Rio Grande."
I'm still waiting for the weather report from NOAA. Dorinda Morgan related that the day of the first (initial) Pendletones audition (where Dennis suggested they write a song about surfing) was a "dreary September afternoon."
By AGD (Agd) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 04:17 am:
Problem, Phlip - if you allow that Carl is right about taking the rented instruments down to Hite's studio, you also have to allow he's on the money when he says they "recorded four songs: a song by the Morgans' son Bruce, one of Alan's folk numbers, one of Brian's Four Freshmen tunes and a song that Brian and Mike had made up called "Surfin'."
And they didn't - OK, they cut a Bruce Morgan tune ("Luau") and "Surfin'", but the only other song cut was Dorinda's "Lavender". No folk song, no Four Freshman number. Can't have it both ways. Carl's account is suspect in other details - the usually stated amount of food money is $300 (although Carl himself has been quoted as saying it was $800 !), and if Carl had his own guitar and Alan played bass, why hire two more guitars, especially if money was so short they had to tap Alan's mom for some more greenbacks ? Plus, if they used the rented gear for the demo recording, what did they use to rehearse on ? No bass, no drums, two guitars, Brian's organ. If they were using new instruments for the first time at the demo session, I'm not surprised it sounded shitty !
"And then Gary Winfrey's recollection that Hite called back about six months later (and had the Islanders rehearse "Rio Grande") would place that event in early 1962, about the time Al left the Beach Boys."
Except that just about every source has The Islanders asking Brian to help them out with "Rio Grande", which in turn led to the Morgan audition. Sorry, Phlip, it just doesn't fit the sequence of events. but that's OK - as Mr. Holmes memorably said, "once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, is what happened."
But time-out, and let's look at the broader picture. What a trip this has been ! Go back to early March: everything was set in stone post 9/61. Alan left the band to go to Michigan to study dentistry. Fact. Three weeks later, we know that this simply isn't possible, we know when he really attended Ferris, we know why - dad was on the faculty - and we now know more about Alan's pre-BB group than anyone could really want to know, members, songs, even got a photo of them. Twenty-one days - with bathroom breaks - to rewrite early BB history that's stood for over 40 years. That's impressive, and we should all be happy with our part in it, because it's been a collaborative effort by NSMB stalwarts. Has any other fansite on the net ever done something like this ? I seriously doubt it. Could it have been done any other way ? Possibly, but not in three weeks. Gentlemen, I salute you one and all.
By Textus (Textus) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 07:13 am:
Been out of pocket all weekend. At home tonight, I'll get my copy of Whitcomb and report on it.
I do remember that reading it and the other sources back in 1996 prodded the thought that the Wilson-Haven trip almost certainly wasn't over Labor Day weekend. I don't remember my rationale.
Fred Morgan, to my mind, wouldn't have recognized the "Wish Upon a Star" motif. I didn't until I read it in White, and was always more convinced that Brian drew from "Earth Angel." I think it is more likely that he would have confused the two Brian songs -- particularly since I feel certain that Brian's original written version of SG was in 4/4 and most likely didn't reflect the triplets in the instrumental.
I suppose it is possible that enough parts of the "Surfin'" legend are inaccurate that Brian could have had the song in writing 15 months before its recording. But they would have to include 1) That such a minor melody would have been saved and reused, 2) The whole Dennis serendipity in the studio story, at least if the song was performable the previous spring, 3) That Brian would have so sloughed off a music class as to present "Surfin" as a class assignment. I have an easier time believing that he'd submit the chord sequence of SG, although I can imagine him doing a sequence of Domino-inspired chords that Fred Morgan might later have mistaken for the song "Surfin."
As I said before, with a nod to Will Rogers talking about Calvin Coolidge, it's no so much what we don't know as how much we do know that's wrong. Next we're going to find out that it was Dennis waiting for a bus, and Al had a ride all along with a pretty cheerleader that had thought better of marrying Mike.
By Phlip (Phlip) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 08:54 am:
Recap...
What seems pretty likely:
1. Alan Jardine and Brian Wilson graduated from Hawthorne High School in June 1960;
2. The Islanders (Alan Jardine, Gary Winfrey, and Bob Barrow) recorded "The Wreck of the Hesperus" sometime in 1960. This crude recording was eventually played for Hite and Dorinda Morgan. The Morgans weren't interested at the time, and said they would call later if they got something for them. The Morgans eventually did call back, and the Islanders were given a Bruce Morgan song called "Rio Grande" to rehearse and (hopefully) record.
3. Alan Jardine attended Ferris Institute in Big Rapids, Michigan, for two semesters, from September 16, 1960 to June 11, 1961. While there, he lived with his family in Big Rapids. Donald Jardine was a professor at Ferris at the time.
3. After the 1960-61 school year, the Jardines moved back to California (Torrance), and Alan attended El Camino Community College. It is unknown if his first semester at El Camino was the Summer or Fall semester 1961.
4. Brian Wilson was enrolled as a full-time student at El Camino Community College from September 1960 through January 1962. It is unknown if he attended El Camino during the Summer Semester 1961. He worked "odd jobs" the summer after graduating from high school, before enrolling at ECCC.
5. Brian and Al "bumped into each other" on the El Camino campus sometime in 1961 between June 11 and September 15. They had not seen each other since before Al left for Michigan in September 1960.
6. The Pendletones (Beach Boys) recorded "demos" of "Surfin'," "Luau," and "Lavender" at Hite Morgan's home studio on Mayberry Street on Friday, September 15, 1961.
7. Audree and Murry Wilson went to Mexico City with another couple sometime around September 1961. While they were away, Brian and the gang rented musical instruments (with the help of Alan's mom).
Here's what we don't know:
1. When did Alan and Brian "bump into each other" at El Camino?
THIS IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE: If the meeting occurred "between classes," then it MUST have been during the Summer Semester (ended August 2, 1961) OR during the Fall Semester (began September 11, 1961). If the El Camino football team was having a scrimmage that day, then it could not have been in June or July. If the Jardines did not return promptly from Michigan (within 10 days or so after the end of the Spring Semester), Alan would have missed the start of the Summer Semester at El Camino and PROBABLY would not have enrolled.
2. When did the Islanders get Hite Morgan's name and phone number from Audree (or Murry) Wilson?
THIS IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE: If it was during the Summer of 1960 (up until Al left for Michigan), then Al and Gary must have been friends with Brian Wilson at the time. Or at least would have had some reason to believe Brian had "connections" in the music industry. (Murry, maybe?). But if this was the case, then Hite and Dorinda contacted Gary Winfrey BEFORE Al returned from Michigan with the offer of "Rio Grande," and Al's imminent return must have been known to Gary before Al finished the Spring Semester, OR, "Rio Grande" was offered to the Islanders AFTER Al had returned, and the gap between "The Wreck of the Hesperus" audition and the Morgans giving them "Rio Grande" would have been at least ten months (Gary remembers it as six months). And if it did happen that Gary was given "Rio Grande" at about the time of Al's return from Michigan (ten months or so after "The Wreck of the Hesperus" audition), then how long after that before Al "bumped into" Brian at El Camino (which led to Al, Gary, and Brian singing songs together in the ECCC nurse's quarters), bringing Brian (briefly) into the Islanders circle (to help with "Rio Grande")?
3. When did Murry and Audree go to Mexico City?
THIS IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE: If Murry and Audree went to Mexico City sometime AFTER September 15th, then the story that Brian and the guys rented instruments for a home rehearsal (pre-9-15-61 Hite Morgan recording rehearsal session) could not be true. If they went to Mexico City BEFORE September 11th, then Al MUST have "bumped into" Brian at El Camino sometime prior to the start of the Fall Semester. HOWEVER... IF Murry & Audree went to Mexico City during the week of September 11th, then it is POSSIBLE that Al "bumped into" Brian at El Camino at the start of the Fall Semester (between classes, and while the football team was having a scrimmage). However, if it happened that way, then Brian's involvement with the Islanders (and "Rio Grande") was VERY short-lived, and the events of September 11-15 were very rapid (mercurial).
4. Were there any "dreary" days (weather-wise) in L. A. during August and September 1961?
REASON THIS IS A PROBLEM: Dorinda Morgan remembered the day the Pendletones (Beach Boys) came in for their very first audition as "a dreary September day in 1961."
Also, regarding Carl Wilson's recollection of the guys cutting FOUR songs at the 9-15-61 recording rehearsal session... how about these...
1. Surfin'
2. Luau
3. Lavender (not knowing who wrote it, Carl would mistake this one for a "Brian Wilson/Four Freshmen-type song")
4. Rio Grande (not knowing who wrote it, Carl would remember it as an "Al Jardine Folk Song").
BTW, was there an attempt by the Pendletones to record "Rio Grande" at the 9-15-61 session? Or was Carl maybe just remembering it as a song they had rehearsed in preparation for the session?
By Mrs_dauber (Mrs_dauber) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 11:18 am:
Has anybody considered that Al & Brian's meeting at El Camino may have had nothing to do with attending classes? Either one could have been on campus that day to meet with friends, look up something at the library, visit the career services office, etc.? Maybe one of the aforementioned 'odd jobs' involved working at El Camino?
By Textus (Textus) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 12:27 pm:
Excellent point, particularly since a college campus is always a really pleasant place to play hookie from just about anything.
By Phlip (Phlip) on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 12:50 pm:
Mrs. Dauber: What would seem to preclude that is the following:
(From Byron Preiss book "The Beach Boys"):
ALAN: I bumped into Brian on campus one day. Smash-o. We crossed paths. Literally. I said, 'Brian, this is IT. We have to get together.' So we went into the music room between classes and sang Four Freshmen songs."
"... between classes...."
So, whether Al and/or Brian were actually students at the time, school WAS in session. Which dates the "meeting" to either the period between June 21 and August 2 (Summer Semester), or September 11 (beginning of the Fall Semester).
Likewise, if the fourth member of the ad hoc group singing in the nurse's quarters that day was indeed (as Brian later reported) an El Camino fullback with a knee injury sustained in a "scrimmage," then the date CANNOT be pre-August, either, because college football teams (even now, but ESPECIALLY in the 1960's) do NOT begin Fall Practice until August.
Ergo, the meeting occurred September 11th, right at the beginning of the Fall Semester.
And then... and then... eh-eh...
Brian invites Al to came over to the Wilson house and meet Mike and Carl...
And then?
Al convinces the guys to try to record something ("I took Brian and the guys down to do a folk song... I wanted to sing--anything," according to Al) at Hite Morgan's studio...
And then?
Murry calls Dorinda and asks her to "do something with him (Brian)... Audree and I are going to Mexico City"...
And then?
Al, Brian and the guys do in fact