Okay, I don't mean to offend the women on this board. God bless you; you're a
rare lot, indeed. One possible reason is that the early BB stuff was male focused, surf, cars
etc. Then there is the Pet sounds period...BW singing about what all young men
go through. Why bother trying to 'convert' people? All right, you IDIOTS: I have to agree Jeff that in all my years I hardly ran into a woman that
appreciated this music. It's so great to see the diehard women that often post
to these boards because they really take a stand for what they know is good.
I play in a band that plays originals and covers and we're all guys and I
notice that 70% or more of our audience at the shows (had one last night) are
girls, and they like to dance. Nothing like looking up and seeing smiling,
drunken, lovely ladies twisting and spinning and dancing a few feet in front of
you and all around!!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
I have had girls tell me that the Beach Boys are old fashioned. I should get
with the times as they say. I had one tell me that she didn't like them because
they weren't rock'n'roll. I am sitting here writing this post, while listening
to the Beach Boys in Concert from '74 on cd. I don't know they rock pretty well
to me. I sometimes think however that she really has never heard the Beach Boys.
She does however like The band that does the song THe Warmth of the Sun. I tried
to tell her that it was the Beach Boys. "How could a surf band make such a
beautiful song", she asked me. The only song by the Beach Boys she likes is
Kokomo. While a good song, it pales in comparison to the rest of their music. I
try not to complain, when I ride with her as she is my ride to and from school,
when I go home on the weekends. I don't know however how much more of todays
commercially orientated music I can take. I need help, I think I am going to go
crazy. I think because female fans tend not to analyze the music and discuss the
"formula" as much as the male fans do, we seem to be not involved. my honeybuns turned me on to the boys and now i drive him crazy! nyuk nyuk !
he always says "oh god...this again?"....i like cars and water...has there been
a song made yet about the Wisconsin Dells Ducks?....huh?....i try to dance but
it hurts when i bounce....i say if yer girl dont like the music....so what, keep
playin it and sooner or later she'll either like it or leave...or she could do
both?....dunnonothin....urglie...urglie :)
My girlfriend loves the Beach Boys (although probably through my making tapes
of all the capitol albums and box set more than anything). Imagine that; a
beautiful six foot blonde 21 year old into the Beach Boys- some guys have all
the luck (i.e Me!). Sod the California Girls, this is one British woman to knock
them all out! We spent what was supposed to be our first date (just over a year
ago) making out to Pet Sounds, and this winter and summer listening to our
favourite stuff- she's into Brian Wilson as an artist, and knows what Mike and
Bruce are doing isn't the Beach Boys ("aren't the important ones dead?" she
naively, but perceptively, asked me when I told her they were still touring). I
gave her a copy of Pet Sounds as a love token when we had to be spearated for
universities 100 miles apart, and she totally dug it. Although she moans that I
like music too much, she understands the importance of it. And if it means that
just about the only thing we can listen to together is the Beach Boys, well, I'm
not complaining!
I have to second Jeff's observation. I have been a huge fan of Brian's music
since the early '70's, and my buddies and I spent hours during our highschool
and college years sitting around listening to the Beach Boys. But no matter how
thoughtfully I've selected the tracks, I have never been able to interest a
women in their music. Perhaps the Beach Boys music is essentially a white
heteorsexual male experience.
Jim, At the risk of provoking the wrath of Jeanne, I have to admit that the only
other female BB fans I know are the ones I met on this board. I find the ones
who, like me, are fans of the post Pet Sounds era to be rarer still. I have to agree with Jeanne-people in general don't like the Beach Boys. I
have met only one other person (male) who likes the BB's as much as I do and for
the same songs. While some of my friends have been impressed (or surprised) by
some of their music from the 70's, they still don't really get it. My brother
thinks I'm a nut case. Aside from the above-mentioned male friend, the only
other people I know of who get the music are on the ones who come to these
boards. Either this music hits you or it doesn't. Just my opinion. ----- Marie
Contrary to popular belief, I think MY girlfriend Dana really likes the group. See, the thing is, most
people know of the group only by the surf stuff. Dana's favorite stuff by the
group is from Wild honey up to Holland, even more than Pet Sounds. Actually, if
the group would've had a different name, they'd be taken more seriously.
Jeanne, Will you marry me?
el diablo, I'm 80 years old and weigh 400 pounds. Oh the lovely anonymity of
these boards... The Beach Boys in my opinion are and should be the greatest most influential
band in Rock. They are a lot better then the Beattles, The Stones or anyone
else. They know how to writer soul music. They are good on feels.
Generalities are dangerous, nevertheless, men seem to be more inclined than
women to trip heavily on a band. That said, I've come to believe that the only
people who dont like Brian's music are those who haven't really taken the time
to listen to it. yes it's true. My wife, who claims to be so eclectic hip, and also a great
lover of men, hates the BB's and Brian. Although she's consenting to go with me
to see Brian here in L.A. The guy was right on. Men are more emotional then
women. Brian touches all the things we love, hate , despair, have joy for. Our
fears and loves. An he/we all LOVE women!! what guy can't relate to that? And
Brian's a regular guy like us. He touches our souls. I tried to play Pet Sounds
for my woman and she just yawned. Only saying that she hated the phrasing in "I
just wasn't made.." It's sad but Iguess the BB's and Brian are just for men to
appreciate.
JEANNE- Me and my work buddy are going to see Brian Wilson in LA but his wife just
sort of laughed at the idea of going with us. The Beach Boys are a guy thing but
history could have been different if Brian could have had his creativity
unrestricted and do his thing to appeal to everyone. He could have reached a
larger female audience had he been free to do more with his girl group he wrote
and produced for "The Honey's". By the way, does anyone out there have anything
by The Honey's? How is it? It's impossible to find.
I have some of the Honeys stuff-it's OK, not great. A i kinda remember nothin but young girls screamin, cryin, faintin and rushin
to get autographs back when?.....urglie...urglie
In their "teeny bopper" days--yes,of course. im not braggin babe so dont put me down....but i've got the fastest set of
.....in town...when someone comes up to me they dont even try....cause if SHE
had a set o wings man i know SHE can fly?....that was my first song that i
learned...besides to this day i faint, cry, scream and carry on....i love all of
the songs...its nice to meet you all...urglie...urglie
I Love the Beach Boys because: Tybalt speaks of the girls screaming for the Boys in their youth and the
screams quieting as the guys and the music matured. That's true, but don't
forget that even later on, the guys (especially the Wilson brothers, but not
just them) still set female hearts aflutter. It wasn't screams then, but
deeply-felt sighs and loud cheers. Carl was still thrilling us gals late into
his all-too-brief tenure here in the world. Hey PISCES LADY, there is one negative girl song Brian wrote about a good
girl gone bad. Pet Sounds "Caroline No". Supposedly about an old girlfriend of
his but alot of Pet Sounds is bittersweet. That's probably the only one.
Gordon: Why don't women like the Beach Boys? It was interesting reading somewhere that the original lyric to "Caroline No"
as penned by Tony Asher was actually supposed to be "Carol I Know", but Brian
misheard it. If this is true, I wonder whether the lyric in the second verse
"Caroline You" was supposed to be "Carol I knew"? IMHO this interpretation puts
the "blame", as it were, squarely on the first person (i.e. Carol just changed /
matured, but Brian never got over it). i still think despite what Brian says, Caroline No WAS Marilyn. Oh Mar-i-lyn
noooo....
dear ron, I think caroline was marilyn's sister or maybe the same woman that
he named wendy after; either way it is a masterpiece, as is "she knows me too
well"
OK Pisces lady, so Caroline loosing that happy glow may be a loss of
innocence but if I were a girl and a cheerleader, "Pom Pom Playgirl" would seem
negative and sexist to me or am I being too politicaly correct? By the way, that
song rocks!
hey little tomboy and all dressed up for school are both slightly lecherous
in tone.
I have introduced 3 lady friends to Pet Sounds, they were not fans of the
Beach Boys or Brian Wilson's until after that introduction. Brian lets loose
with his emotions on that album and can use music to get to your emotional soul
with his chord changes and progressions, especially the double bass chords. One
of these ladies is quite a piano player and she tried to play tthe chords
herself after just listeningto the music, her comments as she was not getting
them until I bought the sheet music for her " Damm it sounds like simple chords
until you try to play them, he uses chords and chord changes that no one else
would even think about, and IT WORKS." A previous poster commented on it being a
male thing that Brians music stirs the male emotion, well we all have both male
and female parts to us so maybe the Ladies that can relate to this emotionally
are more in touch with their male side, ( not that, that makes them any less
feminine, maybe it makes them even more so that they can get to the male part of
their emotions without it effecting their femininity.) Iain B, If you really want to have mercy on us, explain "urglie"
I live in nebraska, and the girls here dont know much of anything about them,
probaly because it Well, I am a woman, and I have LOVED the Beach I (like some people) don't think it is a girl thing. I've watched this debate
brew for about a month and am interested in the replies like a)after Wild honey
& beyond a change of name for the group (although unfeasable)would probably
have brought better success - its an image thing b) some girls simply DONT want
to be associated with the bikini thing - in England where I am its too bloody
raw to wear a bikini without dying c) what about a general lack of forgiveness
after the build up to the release of SMiLE - people were promised so much if
they were to believe the press (Crawdaddy etc) and then 10 months later mixed
messages from Smiley Smile I think that the reason why most women don't like The Beach Boys, or The
Beatles, or The Who, or The Kinks, or The Stones or any good music for that
matter, is that most women are full of sh$t, sorry am I allowed to swear here.
Most of the girls I've met, and believe me, it's a lot, have never talked about
films, or music, or anything interesting for that matter. Brian Wilson has
touched me more than any women, apart from my mom (and no, I'm not gay). Ask any
ardent Brian Wilson male fan, and most of them will say something similar,
whether you like it or not.
Dave, I talked to you once on the blue board. I'll ignore the insult and
welcome you anyway. I don't know any man in my flesh and blood life who talks
about music/film. That's why we all need the boards, right?
It always seemed to me that there were more My husband LOVES the Beach Boys. I used to when I was a kid. Now they just
irritate me. There are 3 basic reasons why women don't dig the Boys. 1) The men
in our lives don't just like the Beach Boys, they LOVE them. It becomes a
competition of affection. Case in point, look how many of you are on this BB
instead of spending time with your wives. 2) The Beach Boys are self absorbed
(albieght very talented and entertaining) and immature in nature, singing about
boy stuff that seems to keep our husbands rather boyish and immature. 3) With
the exception of Melissa Ethridge and K.D. Lang, most women I know don't sing
lyrics like, "I dig a French bikini", "I wish they all could be California
girls", etc. And the rest of us hetro women aren't particulary fond of our guys
singing "Two girls for every boy!!" It's really that simple.
What's simple is your evaluation of the Beach Boys by quoting lyrics from the
first few years of their career. This is actually a problem for a lot of people.
They just don't realize how complicated, beautiful and intricate the music was
(even though it sounded simple and immature), and you seem to ignore that fact
that they made music for a number of years after the songs you mentioned. Anyone
with ears couldn't ignore that fact. Ironically, these boys singing "Boy Stuff"
and leading us men into temptation (and ignoring you in the process) changed the
world. Their influence on the music world (if only the Beatles) is so huge, it
has secured their place in the rock'n'roll hierarchy. If women don't like the
Beach Boys, it doesn't matter to me.
Amy, I can understand you being irritated about the "two girls for every boy"
Southern California deal, as I have dealt with the "mirror image" of that,
halfway around the world. Athens, Greece is not the place for a straight, single
guy like I'd have to say for me, too....and it's tough balancing my BB and my
bf.....actually i would love for him to be a fanatic about
something....anything! just so he wouldn't feel so left out all the time.
I am A WOMAN!!! and brian wilson's music reaches out to me....and i DO
understand his message....I do NOT need a Y chromosome to understand the musical
impact that brian and the boys have made. and i DO talk about films, music,
sports, and other issues. I'm VERY intersted in the MUSIC of the beach boys and
brian wilson. Brian is my hero, and all i do is listen to all his wondrous
compositions and get angry at his overlooked genius!!! i try to show people the
beauty of their harmonies and the amazing music....so don't judge EVERY woman
based on what a few superficial bitches say.....we're all fans here, so don't
get all sexist with me now.....i study them like a subject in school! i'm
serious about them. I'm always looking for more info on them and i love to
discuss brian's production style, musical messages...who wrote what...etc.
The above post is WILD HONEY Grenade, I wasn't evaluating the Beach Boys, but evaluating why I believe
women don't like the Beach Boys as much as men do. You mistook my statments and
forgot the purpose of my opinion. I do understand that the Beach Boys are VERY
talented and that their music is interwoved with beautiful harmonies, fun songs
and deep human inspection. However, as a woman I find it hard to fully enjoy the
music and get irritated by the self absored male lyrics as well as those about
girls in bikinis. That isn't just their early music, and it spans to their most
recent music. I did enjoy Imagination as a sweet, more interesting version of
the early Beach Boys music and find it soothing. But overall, I stand by what I
said.
Billy, I'm a woman who LOVES the Beach Boys!! It has everything to do with the sound
of their voices rocking in harmony and very little to do with their lyrics. Man,
those guys could SING!!! As others have said here, their music touches my soul
in ways other artists don't. To Amy Proctor: Amy, It's just so strange that you use your gender as an explanation of why
you find it hard to enjoy the music, because "as a woman" I find the music
irresistible. (I don't mean you're strange) It's an interesting problem. I say
as a woman, but maybe not. Maybe as a person. Most women are self absorbed and immature in nature, and feel a need to
"compete" for their mans affections, which Amy has pointed out very nicely. If
only they would join their man, instead of feeling a need to "compete" with
something that he loves, we would then have world peace.
uh, yeah right....divorce court...except that *I'M* not competing....i'm a
woman who loves the beach boys!!! *S*
i'm a stone-cold bb fan and my wife doesn't Okay...NOT TRUE! I am female! I couldn't adore them more! I EVERYTHING I
see...if it's the 5th release of Greatest Car songs just because it may have a
different picture! Their music is almost ALL I listen to. I have trouble finding
GUYS to support my musical taste! I love their voices, and think Brian was a
genius! As most! And I think all the others were talented! It's not "women" in
general. I have to be one of the most devoted fans. Heck, I've never even met
Brian face to face but I'd give my life for him! There music is deeper and more
heartfelt than anything now, and a lot of at their time! But..I'm one of those
odd people who happens to be a female and a teenager(Yes, one of those!) Who
thinks they are the best thing in the world! What girl couldn't love Brian's
music on Today/PetSounds especially? I do my homeowrk to the, I clen the house
to them, I ride in the car to them, I listen to them all the time! I work out to
them! It's not females!
To the lovely lady who posted that she loves listening to The Beach Boys in
her car. I would love to meet you. I am also into the Beach Boys and I am sick
of people telling me that they ar enot rock'n'roll. If nopt then what are they?
I am telling you I have been a fan since I was in the 6th grade.( I am now a
junior at Penn State). The Beach Boys music I think is on a higher plane even
then pop. It something that hasn't been defined yet. Their music is well beyond
its years. Their music will be known well into the next century. As for woman
liking them, I am a male and I love them. I am the ONLY one in my family who
does. Everyone thinks I am crazy. My female friends have told me that I should
get with the times. I can't help it. I can only listen to Shania Twain for so
long.( although I can lok at her body any time) I think if the deejays today
stopped playing commercial crap an dactually played stuff like Forever, I Can
Hear Music, or Baby Blue. There is a lot of good music out there that should be
played.
JUST A NOTE TO SAY THAT I AM A FEMALE, AND I NOT ONLY ENJOY THE BEACH BOYS
MUSIC, I AM THE MANAGER OF THE BEACHED BOYS WHO ARE A TRIBUTE BAND BASED IN
AUSTRALIA. THEY ARE THE ULTIMATE BEACH BOYS EXPERIENCE, AND RE-CREATE THE LOOKS,
SOUND AND MUSIC OF THE BEACH BOYS, WITH THE MUSIC AND HARMONIES ALL AS CLOSE AS
POSSIBLE TO THE ORIGINAL RECORDINGS. THE WHOLE SHOW IS LIVE, NOT A RECORDING OR
TRACK IN SIGHT. WE CAN BE E-MAILED AT: THEBEACHEDBOYS@HOTMAIL.COM AND ARE
AVAILABLE FOR WORK WORLDWIDE.
last night i asked a good buddy if he liked the beach boys .....he said "no"
...i asked why ? his reply "they are too, you know....candy".....i bet he went
home and put on a bb album ....he's a tough guy that rides a harley, (tatoos and
all) ....urglie...urglie
I'm a black woman who digs Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. I also like The
Roots (hip hop), Bob Marley and The Wailers (reggae), Joni Mitchell (folk/jazz),
and Coltrane (jazz), among other artists. So please be careful not to
pigeon-hole others. It ain't cool and it doesn't do you a whole lot of good as a
person. Jeneanne, we have been guilty of that on a couple of occasions. Sorry!
I finally saw Shania Twain on TV. UGH. What a trite performace by a sexless
little girl. And what a stupid undiscerning audience, what a bunch of sheep.
Brian put across every emotion out there and he never took his clothes off or
gyrated or pranced around like an idiot. I never could understand why women want
to watch other women being or attempting to be provocative. Why would I want to
watch Madonna, for crying out loud? She's a woman, I'm a woman, so what is she
going to show me? Nope, give me the real thing--Brian's honest expression of all
those emotions he is incapable of hiding or lying about, channeled through his
musical genius.
I really respect you Jeanne, but I must disagree regaridng Shania Twain. I
think she has something very special, both as a performer and a writer, as well.
Her songs have those special hooks that make them very memorable. As a performer
she may be a little lame with all that prancing around on stage that she does.
But, I wouldn't call her sexless. I find her very appealing to look at, in fact.
Well, OK. Your a man. I guess it's a guy thing!
You're funny, with an obviously good sense of humor. Maybe it is a guy thing,
but I noticed a whole lot of women at her show, which was on TV, looking like
they were really grovin' to her music. She is pretty good. But maybe, just
maybe, she's not good in bed -- gotta try to find something wrong with
her...Smile.
No, it's not a guy thing. I'm a guy (last I checked), and Twain doesn't do
anything for me. :-)
But see, New Exec, that's what I was trying to explain that I don't
understand. Why are WOMEN grovin' to her? I don't get that part. I guess it's a
chick thing, and I'm not a chick! But my main point I guess is that Brian's
music speaks for itself-he didn't/doesn't(and wouldn't for that matter)get on
stage and shake his ass or anything like that. All that stuff just gets so old.
I have heard that Mike Love sometimes has (shudder)cheerleaders onstage...but I
didn't mean to insult anybody. Twain seems like all the rest, but I'm not
looking at her through your eyes! Or with your hormones.
I understand where you're coming from, Jeanne, and I wouldn't -- even for a
second -- compare what Brian has to Shania Twain. However, I do think that her
music has a definate appeal to it. I also, think it's great that she's a pretty
as she is, but I honestly didn't know what she looked like when I first heard of
her. Jeanne,I agree with you-that Shania Twain's music basically sucks.It lacks
originality,depth,and is Uh,New Exec, you're making me blush, I'm sure it couldn't have been me that
said anything, I'm much too demure. It had to have been Wild Honey!
Gary L. Yeah, there's an awful lot of derivative music and just plain covers
of the old stuff. What was I listening to the other day that suddenly went into
The Supreme's "Where Did Our Love Go"? The thing is, it really worked. I just
want people to know that the guy took it from the Supremes. I hate people like
Puff Daddy being able to make a career doing what he does. (don't mind Weird Al,
though.) Well put, Jeanne. I started this thread a couple of months ago and have been
reading the posts with great interest and glee. I think maybe you've hit the
closest to the core of the problem. I don't know if you were kidding, but I have
to say that your observation that "the whole western paradigm would have to fall
for the average person to get it" rings true. Dear Jeanne, Jeff--You're the guy that sent us women scrambling to defend our status as
fans! I hope now with your approval I can be admitted into the exclusive
brotherhood of Brian:) New Exec, the board is for discussing and yes arguing respectfully. Sometimes
people have to agree to disagree, that's what I meant. You SHOULD challenge me
if you disagree. Jeanne: Nope, you of all people don't need my approval to join the club. :-)
That's the thing, the women who post on the board clearly love Brian's music. I
just wish you were the rule instead of the exception. And by the way, you were
right on with your early post where you observed that, really, not too many
folks of either gender like the Beach Boys. Ah, well. Dear Jeanne, Jeff, you are right. At some level an artist is in control of his art. I've
read Brian quoted as saying that he purposefully wants to make his very complex
music sound simple. Which is why people are so surprised when they try to
reproduce it and they have to work at it. New Executive, no, that wasn't it. Here's your last clue: It had to do with a
magazine article (GQ? Esquire? some guy mag)and the parallels between Pet Sounds
and...something else. But please don't bring it up again here!
Oh yes, that was pretty cool. And what, you didn't agree? Blushing again...didn't you read my reply to that post? We've got to stop
this flirtation before people start reminding us that this is the Brian Wilson
board...Merry Christmas! Jeanne- Well, you've convinced me, and I agree with your musical addition. I'll bring
the records, or I guess the lingo now is, the cds. Could you handle the rest?
John, I am not holding out, I have no problem quoting Jesus, he was a very
great man even if I am not a Christian. Patriarchy is a big problem in the
world. I'll bet you anything Brian believes in equality between the sexes. And
Brian loves nature, so he wouldn't be into dominating(read destroying) it. But
this discussion belongs on your thread. I'll e-mail you as soon as I have time
to think about the download you sent. (Busy season of shopping.) Oh no! John jumped over to this board!! Run for the hills...
Jeanne: Keats, Jesus, Brian, our Jeanne and the New Executive strapping in on
together somewhere out there in cyberspace, resident pastor Brother John jumping
in for good measure... interesting thread!
Oh! Excuse me...I didn't mean to interrupt..I... must have the wrong room!
Sorry! I'll be going now!
Aum Bop, even you!!??:)I wonder who Brother Lee Love is; the guys on this
board switch to aliases a LOT. Hey, we quit of our own accord, give us some
credit!
Jeff, Thanks for identifying the quote for me. When I was a kid, (I'm 46)all
I had to do was stop straightening my very curly hair, put on my bluejeans, and
dis the government to be rebellious. Much easier to be part of the "Love"
generation (on the tail end) than whatever today. But why don't they rebel by
listening to Brian's music? That would set them apart for sure! A Brian Wilson
renaissance... Hey Jeanne: Just picking up on a couple things in this long-running and ever-interesting
thread. I would much rather respond to the posts above, but I have to go out of town,
computer will not be available, will have to talk to the relatives instead, I
guess. Sigh. Merry Merry Merry Christmas!
You're right, Plymouth Rock. As a fellow 1959 baby, my experience is similar
to yours. I can remember back in the 70s, being in the car with my folks who
were listening to jazz on NPR. I felt like I was trapped in hell. Now I love
jazz. Hi Jeff, Plymouth Rock, you make a lot of sense. that point about image is one that
has been basically left out of the discussion on other threads about how to get
Brian a hit. Usually we focused on whom he should collaborate with. Apparently,
for the under 30 set, what he needs is a marketing genius. But the over 30 set
should be easier to reach and I wish a "full blown Brian Wilson Project" as Jeff
said, could happen. I wonder how he could be marketed to THAT age group.
I may not be in the "over 30" age group.....but i'm for Brian ALL THE
WAY!!!!! *LOL* John is going to download Jesus onto Jeanne until she gives up.
Gee---I've had problems finding GUYS who like the BBs. I converted (yeh!
right!) 2 guys: they each have one token BB CD that they never listen to. Now,
one of them is so fed up with my BB love, that he leaves the room if I put on a
BBs CD, or talk about Bri. Guess it didn't work. If it weren't for the guys in
the Cabin, God lovem', I wouldn't know any fellas that are fans. Until I joined
the Cabin, I thought that only chicks dug the Boys. A lot of men, that I know,
consider their music just a bunch of fluff. But, we all know just how complex
(melodically) and soulful (lyrically) their music is. Preaching to the choir,
here! *SMiLES* I'm Bri-Bri ALL the way!! Jeanne, we all have a masculine and a feminine side to us it takes a special
person to allow the opposite side of our sexuality to show without feeling
threatened, And yes Brian is another way that I can get in touch with my
feminine side if infact the nuturing, gentle passionate, caring, tender side of
me is female. The thing is as a guy is allowing this side out without it
impeeding on your male side. This is somewhat self serving but any Lady that is
dating or married to a guy that is into and gets Brians music is a fortunate
person.He is more likely to be a gentle passionate romantic. However even Brian
had this battle within his music, the feminine side of the B side of Beach Boys
Today and Pet Sounds taking over from the masculine side of the earlier songs
about Surfing, Cars and girls. This is also where I see the disparity between
Brian and love, mikey has never developed emotionally beyond the Male macho
bullshit, where as Brian understood that to be male is also to allow the
otherside to come out as well. Iain, I'm begging you, will you let your compassionate feminine side out and
tell me what the hell(this is the masculine me speaking) urglie urglie means????
And by the way, I'm totaly sold on you.
Have you guys still not figured out why women don't like the Beach Boys?
WORD!
Amy, North California Surfer, it wouldn't matter if we did, we just like to
talk about it! And NorCalSurfer, I just scrolled up the entire thread and didn't
notice any opinion by you. So what's your take on it?
Since when do we women not like the Beach Boys??? I've been madly in love
with them since 1963!!
Actually, I posted under the username "Gremmie" back on September 29th. This
topic, like so many discussed here, has no definitive answer. Thank you. ditto.
Amy, jeez, wish i had something great to post, but all i can say is great thread!
I've always been fascinated with the dual nature of feminine/masculine
qualities....and that's what draws me to Brian.....he's not afraid to be
feminine....actually....that's pretty damn sexy if you ask me. *G* a big strong
guy that cries more than ME! *L* gotta love him!!! i do. *S* Wild Honey, I couldn't agree with you more. And damn I love the way Brian's
music makes men spill their guts.
oh it's very true, jeanne....I've talked to a few guys and we dealt with very
sensitive subjects....concerning Brian's music....it's great. *S* Whereas we women need have no compunction about saying we are attracted to
him!
amen to THAT, jeanne!! I'm a female that loves the BB's. I have ever since I was about 8 years old
(36 years ago!) Beautiful, unbelievable harmonies. I don't know why they are so
underappreciated. Maybe it's just that most people don't pay close attention to
music; it's background noise.
Im in my 20's a Female,and I love and adore Brian and the Beach Boys .So no
not most or all dislike the Beach Boys. I dont know one female that dislikes
them.hmmm
Jeanne, John, someday in BB heaven we can all play out our fantasies about each other
and the BBs, in some big communal fertility/life rite. Music provided by BBs of
course. Till then, thanks for the compliment. And blessed are we who have ears
to hear.
I believe that audiences enjoy BB music but musicians don't enjoy playing it.
I've tried and tried to get a BB cover band together in the Dallas area with
little response to my ads. I gave up and set lesser goals,like asking the band
I'm in now to play a 45-minute set of BB hits. As if you could do justice in 45
minutes. We have the ability to do this and I have all of the vocal parts scored
out to save time and,still,no go. We play alot of pool parties at country clubs
where I find that often little kids,usually about 10 and under,ask for Beach
Boys,so we do our half-ass version of "Surfin' USA" and move on to the 99,999th
time we play "Soul Man" or "Pretty Woman". Still,like the earlier post on this
board from Australia shows,there are BB cover/tribute bands around the world
(there's also one out of England with a website). It is really sad that out of
the 15 or so musicians I know in the Austin and Dallas areas,I am the only real
BB fan. My subversive plan is to bring in easy songs like a medley of "Good
Timin'"/"Sail On Sailor" and "Wishing You Were Here",and then try to get them to
learn "I Get Around" and "Good Vibrations". If we can do those last two,which
are two of the most difficult,and pull them off,I'm hoping audience members
would possibly start requesting others by the BB and maybe the band would get
the message. Anyway,in the meantime,I'll just keep songs like "Kiss Me
Baby","Please Let Me Wonder",and "Girls On The Beach" to myself on my Walkman
while I'm lying out by the pool this summer. Urglie Urglie
Hey I saw this topic and HAD to read it. I am 35 years old and have loved the BB
since I was about 8. They were my first concert and the memories that they bring
back to me are unforgettable. I am just shocked to hear that women don't like
the BB as much as men. Actually, I haven't met many people in my life that love
the BB. I really know nothing about chords and harmonies, so I am strictly going
by words and the feel good feeling I get from listening to them. They, as
someone else said, make me happy, cheer me up from a bad mood and give me pep
when I am feeling sluggish. As far as the comments about women not liking the
bikinis and stuff like that... that was always the way I got my boyfriend(now
husband) to go to those concerts where Mike Love always had the dancing girls
w/him. I am so sad that my five year old didn't get to see them in concert
together. But, we play BB music around the house and I tell her never to trust
someone who doesn't like the BB!! Just wanted to add myself to the list of women
that love them and miss Dennis and Carl very much.But I thank God that we had
the BB cause I can't imagine growing up w/o them--esp. those teen years that
were so hard anyway...the BB spoke what my heart was feeling whether I was in
love or going through a heartbreak.
BRAVO & warm regards to the authors of the 2 (two) posts directly above
this one. Very cool!
very interesting I lost my viginity while the BB's were playing in the
background. Hmmm good vibrations ;o)
It's just that in my experience, women tend not to
appreciate the Boys, tend instead to dismiss them entirely. Can enjoying this
music be gender related?
Right now, as I type this, my girlfriend is
asleep in the next room. She's beautiful and smart and sexy and wonderful. I
love her with all that I am, but I've got to say that we never, I mean NEVER
listen to the music together that makes my heart sing.
She hates the
Beach Boys' music. She thinks they're lightweight, all that silly nonsense. And
the problem is, most women I've ever known share this mania. What's going on?
Maybe it's just something in me that always picks Beach Boy hating
women. I dunno.
A careful reading of posts here over the last year or so
suggests to me that other people have run into this phenomenon, too, though.
I would love to hear everybody's thoughts on this one.
By MCP on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 02:05
am:
Thirdly women are inferior to men
By nai_snosrap on Sunday,
September 26, 1999 - 03:31 am:
I'd rather keep all those gems
of Brian's to myself, they're mine all mine!
By Jeanne on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 07:05
am:
Female here. I LOVE the BBs/Brian Wilson. I
have always LOVED the high male voice, falsettist, sopranist, whatever you want
to call it.
I'd like to ask the first poster, how many men do you know
in your personal life that love the BBs? Cause, I know one, and the rest of them
live on this board. At BBs concerts, is the audience mostly men? At the BW
concerts, has it been mostly men? PEOPLE in gereral don't love them.
The first poster may have a point about the subject matter of the
early stuff putting some women off. And it is true that most of the posters on
this board are men.
My brother-in-law has said to me before that he
thinks that women in general don't like music as much as me. And I read that the
most common type of genius is the male music prodigy. There actually might be
some truth in what the first poster says.
I happen to be
hetero-emotional, as well as heterosexual, which means that I prefer male
company to female. The most gorgeous woman in the world is nothing next to the
average guy. All these female singers bore me to death. I love the BBs at every
phase (emphasis on BW) because I love them as boys, as young men, as adults, and
now it's just Brian. And when I say love, being female, there's that extra edge
on it that you men don't feel (if you're straight) So add that to that
beautiful, gut wrenching, heart-twisting music, and the beautiful,
gut-wrenching, heart-twisting vocals, and I am totally obsessed.
Loving men
as I do, to hear those voices go from earthly manliness to angelic sweetness and
back again-GOD. And I MEAN GOD.
But I too had overlooked the BBs for
years. I just recently re-discovered them, but my response was immediate, strong
and unignorable.
So I suggest to first poster that if this relationship
does not work out, you use BBlover as your first criteria. After all, how sexy
can your girlfriend really be if she does not want to make love to Don't Worry
Baby, Don't Talk, etc?
But thanks for this question and giving me the
opportunity to express my love without having to quote BB facts and minutia,
which seems to be how most of the men do it. Don't get me wrong, I love reading
it, but it's nice to read the male emotional response, from the few men who are
willing to give it.
Brian, I adore you.
By David C. on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 07:16
am:
My wife always says "how can you listen to that stuff?...it all sounds
the same...and my two daughters totally agree. My son watched parts of the BW
Beacon concert video with me and at least enjoyed the band.
Growing up,
I took most of the blasting from girls in my classes...one wrote in my yearbook,
"David I'm sure we'll all forget the Beach Boys but how could we forget
you?"...probably because I was so adamant that people should listen to the
greatest music ever delivered. Even at reunions the girls can't believe I still
like "this stuff" since 1964.
The guys, on the other hand, give me a bit
more credit for sticking to my guns. And I have to say that with every concert
it was the guys who I found to be the most interested in the music. The wives
somehow were just going along for a night out, yawning halfway through. Again, I
am totally grateful for every woman who does understand the depth of Brian
Wilson. Cheers!
By local on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 12:57
pm:
By waves on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 09:36
am:
The Beach Boys are the best and there is know denying it.
By Girlie Girl on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 11:58
am:
Oh, but
we are! We travel in packs and go to concerts together. We talk about them as
people.
We love to dance. We love the music!
It is when we are a
girlfriend of a Beach Boy fan that we tend to get bored with the subject. I went
out with a BB fan and he bored me to tears with the chord structure and Brian's
possible intentions!!! I just love them the way they are!
By janegirL on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 12:28
pm:
By Conspiracy Jim on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 01:03
pm:
By Bill on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 02:43
pm:
By waves on
Monday, September 27, 1999 - 04:20 pm:
Where did you find her. A tall woman who likes the Beach Boys. What
a find. I wish you luck. I an not being sarcastic. I am 6'5", and would love to
find a girl at least 6 foot. Oh well. I hope you realize what a rare find you
truly have. I am not being sarcastic. I am being very sincere.
By tgfnyc on
Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 08:56 am:
I
just don't get it either.
By NE Pa on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 10:26
am:
By White Cap on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 10:35
am:
men are much more emotional than
women.
Women let out surface shit like crying
to their friends because
everyone's going
away to school, but I think men have emotion
that runs
deeper than oceans. We hold them
in, (we must) and we confront them in
private, in our rooms, in our sleep, in
our car, in our MUSIC. Music can
BREAK
a man in half. Tear him down to a child.
Sitting on the floor,
crying, listening to those
beautiful melodies, wanting love, wanting
to
give love, share love, feel, feel, feel.
Women like to dance to music, and
have
beautiful rhythym, but I've never met
one where the music could
kill them. Where
the music was EVERYTING. Where music had
the power to
strip them of walls and masks.
For my male friends, music saves them. It
purges them of deep desperation and aguish in this idiotic world where men
can't cry.
By Guardian
Angel on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 01:35 pm:
By el diablo on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 03:02
pm:
By Jeanne on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 04:20
pm:
TGFNYC, I'm rarely wrathful. i answered the first post
in a big hurry and I've changed my mind since then. I think there is something
to the notion that BBs is a white, male, heterosexual experience. I'm just glad
I have enough maleness (or whatever) in me, to love the music.
I've been
trying to analyze it all day, but White Cap did a much better job than I ever
could. Thanks, White Cap, for your response. I've been wanting to read something
like that from a man ever since I got on this board.
Lets thank God that
there is a man like Brian with such an honest soul who is capable of pouring it
out all over us.
But guys, you don't have to put us down. Not all of us.
SOME of us do feel that music. And I'd love to spend extended lengths of time
discussing the chords, harmonies, meaning, etc.
I love all men who love
the BBs.
By waves on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 07:18
pm:
By Gremmie on
Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 12:03 am:
I began my relationship with the boys in 1973, and
since that time numerous (not to brag) girlfriends of mine have been
converted/enlightened (made to understand?) the power of the music. I'm sure
they are, for the most part, grateful for the exposure.
By ron k of L.A. on
Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 01:00 am:
By tgfnyc on
Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 08:44 am:
Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that your post was wrathful. I just
didn't want to piss you off by making further generalizations about the musical
tastes of women.
:) Nancy
By Gordon Baker
on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 03:03 pm:
By Reggie Dunbar on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 -
04:05 pm:
How about the
Spring album, Gordon? It features Marilyn Wilson and her sister Dianne. Produced
by Brian and David Sandler.
By janes screaming on Thursday, September 30, 1999 -
06:32 am:
By Tybalt on Thursday, September 30, 1999 - 01:35
pm:
You need a little cordial
perspective, the guys were heatrthrobs in those early days. They were fodder for
the young girls in the way that NSYNC, Backst Boys,et.al are now. Once Brian's
genius (and Carl and Denny too) came to the forefront,the squeals and screams
died down. Of course, introspective music rarely produces the same results as
the surf/hot rod stuff. Same was true for The Beatles at first.
I think
women like the BB's as much as guys do.but probably on some different level.
I'll bet girls with BB song title names (Rhonda,Wendy, Barbara Ann,etc) have
always related on the level. Alot of the early stuff was clearly aimed at guys.
Read the lyrics to "Little Deuce Coupe". Also most girls didn't want to be
"California Girls".
Choices I would offer for women to listen to:
"Don't
Hurt My Little Sister" "Kiss Me Baby" and "Don't Worry Baby"--tender stuff.
Avoid some of the macho strut like "Male Ego" and Hey Little Tomboy."
By littleduecejane on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 06:21
am:
By a Pisces
Lady... on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 08:28 am:
I like my gender being a topic that
has a positive note written about it. I am a “Girl On The Beach,” a “Surfer
Girl.” I can relate to “And Your Dream Comes True.” When my boyfriend found a
seashell and gave it to me I identified with “Your Summer Dream.”
I
can’t recall Brian or his co-writers penning anything negative about females.
Many of the Beach Boy tunes are not gender related...”Wouldn’t It Be
Nice,” “God Only Knows,” “Kiss Me Baby,” just a few that I love and could be
sung by a woman...I am the chick by my guys side in “Dance, Dance, Dance.” When
Denny sang “Do You Wanna Dance,” I said... “Yea! I wanna dance.”
Too many BB
songs I can ID with to mention...
Ahhhh!!! The BB harmonies are what I
really like. I can go into a trance just letting their voices carry me away to
distant places.
Being a musician, I really like the chord patterns and
changes that are so intricate compared with other songs from the
60's-70's...Brian was an inspiration to me for learning how to play the piano,
as well as Carl for his guitar licks that I picked up on...I love this type of
music.
Last but not least, Beach Boy music makes me SmiLE when I hear
it...it picks me up...it is a shot of adrenalin...a real stimulus...
Yup! I am a girl and I am a Beach Boy fan...that is something that can
never be taken from me.
Thanks Brian/Beach Boys and all who made the
music possible for writing some cool and hip songs about girls that make us feel
special, and thanks for doing it with style and class...
Peace and
Love...
A PL...
By Cordelia on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 09:43
am:
What was it about them that
attracted us women?
Early on the babitude factor counted quite a bit, but it
was their singing and what they were singing that kept us fans. Someone above
mentioned being thrilled by hearing male falsetto singers -- I'm that way too --
and the BBs had two of the best in Brian and Carl, plus they had Bruce and Alan.
And the voices were so perfectly matched to one another, the blend so heavenly.
By Gordon Baker
on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 04:46 pm:
By a Pisces
Lady... on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 09:35 pm:
It is interesting that you find "Caroline No" a negative
song. You may be correct. Regardless, it depends on personal interpretations and
opinions.
I interpret that song as a poem full of questions facing the
reality of young love growing apart but not as a "good girl gone bad." One
person maturing into a woman, maybe intentionally losing interest in someone she
once was close to while the other person can't accept the situation. It is a
nice thought though... wanting to bring a good relationship "back once they have
gone." It is a song of change for one reason or an other. Someone losing their
innocence (I probably read this line somewhere) while the other wants to hold
onto the past. Lost relationships such as this are a part of most peoples lives
it seems. Sad on one hand..but reality on the other. In the teenage years, it is
very common for one person or the other to go a different direction. The lyrics
seem subjective to me but not negative :)
Regardless, "Caroline No" is a
beautiful song and I wonder how many souls it has healed.
Peace and
Love...
a PL...
Extended note: I couldn't imagine anyone else
attempting to add justice to that song until I heard Timothy B. Schmit do it.
What a compliment!!!
By Sumner on Sunday, October 3, 1999 - 02:15
am:
As far as I am concerned, I can say
that I LOVE the Beach Boys.
I can play the Pet Sounds album, close my eyes
and
let the music take me to the paradise. Paradise is
world without
wars, full of peace and love. You agree?
All the best,
Sumner
remember, paradise is a state of mind, ...
By reginald on Sunday, October 3, 1999 - 08:51
pm:
And please, some more hints to
the urglie urglie mystery would be nice.
Peace.
By ron k of la on
Monday, October 4, 1999 - 01:17 am:
By doctorsounds
on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 08:00 am:
By Gordon Baker on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 04:12
pm:
By dnowak on
Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 10:19 am:
By Iain Boyle on
Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 07:34 pm:
Love and Mercy
urglie urglie
Iain B
By Jeanne on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 04:15
am:
By positraction 413 on Sunday, October 17, 1999 - 07:05
pm:
reminds them of the beach,wearing bikinis,,etc,they
always sang about good looking women, well, the truth is,most women are so
severely overweight here, they would not be caught DEAD near a beach in a
bathing suit,so I guess we guys will just keep on singing about
sexy chicks
and our cars, by the way, I drive a corvette,just like their songs,and it feels
great.
By Surfer Rose on Sunday, October 17, 1999 - 07:35
pm:
Boys ever since I bought a
Greatest Hits album
when I was a teenager (and that was about 24 years ago).
I am from Spain, and moved to Nebraska 6 years ago, and the last guy here is
right. People do not look very healthy here. But I think that the Beach Boys are
the most underrated musical artists ever, but that's fine, 'cause I they will
ALWAYS live in my heart, and the fill me with joy every time I hear them.
I
agree with Jeanne, the world don't seem to care.
It's not a girl thing.
People do not look at the music, they just see the "beach angle" and do not look
at the artistic depth of their total work. We need to pray for them, they do not
know what they are missing!!!!!!!!!!!!
White Cap is right too. My experience
has been that guys seem to be more emotional about music. And Brian Wilson is a
master at stirring up emotions. And he said: Listen, listen, listen....
By Jon Read on
Tuesday, October 19, 1999 - 08:14 am:
(by the way, SMilE is the best thing I've ever
heard)
d) the confusion in that the message of the music may be seen as
"Girls on the Beach" etc far more than the fact (or overlooking the fact) that
the music became increasingly talented & imaginative
Its difficult
to say whether men analyse more than women. There is a problem for men in that
the stereotyping of macho macho and all that, I suppose they are less likely to
open up. But when they do...............well, comments please!
My wife
is a Beatles fan, goes to conventions everywhere and yet she don't get it
either. I haven't heard any of the women say this but my wife thinks the Beatles
were better looking. Was this the problem? I think not but whatever the answer,
what a shallow world...
Well done White Cap, I suppose it's unfair to
pick people out because everyone has said interesting things.
If anything,
the last person got it right when they said they dont know what they are
missing!
Check out the "tree" on Christianity (I didn't think it was my
scene, still not sure)to see the effect on peoples lives.
When something
is wonderful, you DO want to try and "convert" the people you love
Love
to BW/BBs and ALL fans
By Dave the Rave on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 08:39
am:
By Jeanne on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 10:35
am:
By Billy K. on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 11:01
am:
female Beach Boys fans than
male.......There are
a lot of men that have this thing about being too
macho to like the Beach Boys.......
By Amy Proctor
on Monday, November 8, 1999 - 07:42 pm:
By Grenade on Monday, November 8, 1999 - 08:28
pm:
By Billy K. on Tuesday, November 9, 1999 - 11:12
am:
myself to go. Women rave about that place, but with an
overabundance of hot looking guys who are
charmers. With the "shoe on the
other foot", I
can totally understand your point of view......
...........It is kind of interesting that you mentioned about love for the
BB music "competing against the spouse"....I will say, firsthand that it is
true, not just in your case. I have a friend of mine whose wife has the same
perception as yours. And it is understandable, to an extent---most men usually
have some kind of "thing" to be obsessed with. But let's look at the other side
of the coin---would you rather see him be a fanatic of a particular sports team,
or wrestling, or go to strip joints or play poker all the time?
By Wild Honey
on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 11:35 am:
By Wils Honey
on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 11:44 am:
SO, not all women are ditzes...and i'm sure not all men are
assh*les.....despite the previous posts.
By Wild Honey on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 11:46
am:
i misspelled it. *duh*
By Amy Proctor
on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 12:39 pm:
By Amy Proctor
on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 12:45 pm:
Good point, except I wouldn't have married the kid of guy you
described as going to stripe joints. In fact, my husband started the post on
this board about Christians on the BB...read it.Still, thanks for understanding
the female point of view!
By Ms. Terious on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 03:49
pm:
Mr. Terious, bless him, is tolerant of my
fannishness.
By John W.
Proctor on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 08:53 pm:
I love you!
By Jeanne on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 05:02
am:
"Self Absorbed"? as
opposed to what? You see it as self absorbed, yet so many people have stated
that it is music that speaks to them personally, that they feel Brian is
speaking TO them directly, that Brian got them through troubled times...
Listen to Busy Doing Nothing. Brian talking about the minutia of his
life? No, Brian talking about OUR lives, expressing so perfectly something we
have all been through-that hopeful anticipation of the loved one, with a little
doubt thrown in as he does so often. Such humility.
He has the ability
to offer himself to us in a way that is not self absorbed at all but very
giving.
By Divorce Court on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 06:54
am:
By Wild Honey
on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 03:52 pm:
By charlie brown on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 08:19
pm:
get it. that's ok. i think
most casual
listeners see the band as sunshiny-poppy, all
about surfing,
not deep. let's face it, the
songs were meant to be bright and enjoyable,
and some people just don't care to look
beyond that. hey, fun is in,
it's no sin...ya
know? but it's not just women. frankly, i
don't know
many men or women who admit a bb
obsession. maybe it was those awful
clothes.
the band has been sartorially challenged
since the days when
murry wilson dressed
them
By Surfer Girl on
Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - 01:40 pm:
By waves on
Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - 05:30 pm:
By SHEILA
LORRAINE on Thursday, November 25, 1999 - 05:33 am:
By tuff jane on Monday, November 29, 1999 - 08:25
am:
By Jeneanne on Tuesday, November 30, 1999 - 06:50
pm:
Peace out!
By apology is in order on Wednesday, December 1, 1999 -
03:09 pm:
By Jeanne on Saturday, December 11, 1999 - 06:17
am:
By new executive on Wednesday, December 15, 1999 - 04:00
pm:
By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 15, 1999 - 06:58
pm:
By new executive on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 06:46
am:
By Dr. Jimmy on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 01:27
pm:
By Jeanne on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 04:43
pm:
By new executive on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 05:25
am:
Brian's music has an riviting soul to it. It doesn't matter if he
shakes, twists, rocks, or rolls on stage when he's presenting it. The music
still will move you, regardless. Hell, he can sit on stage and not move -- which
isn't far from what he actually did on his last tour -- and the music will still
be wonderful. There's no mistaking that fact. He doesn't need the sizzle to sell
his steak.
However, Twain does do all the aforementioned. Yet, her music
still has merit.
As for the hormome part, didn't I once read that you would
love to do something very sexual to my buddy, Brian in one of your posts? Hey, I
think it's great that ladies still look at the big guy as a verile hunk. That's
really cool to me. I hope you get your wish.
By Gary L. on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 04:32
pm:
meant to be listened to mostly on a physical and
superficial level.That's also the problem with many other artists in today's
music-no real creative and original ideas,just an endless parade of musical copy
cats.If many of today's young people(under 30)had better taste the BB would
probably be as popular today as they were in their hay day.
By Jeanne on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 06:37
pm:
Brian was never selling himself, he was out to make the listener feel
loved(his own words as you know) and to access the spiritual.
I wonder
what Shania's mission statement is. But let's not argue! (And excuse me but I
remember a certain post of yours on the Pet Sounds board, dude.)
By Jeanne on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 10:48
am:
I feel I don’t listen to top forty enough to have a very
educated opinion. Nevertheless, I share your feelings
In the case of
Shania and that type, there's a lot of focus on sex and if people get turned on
they assume the music is good. (No offense N. E.) But it's so easy to do, a
certain drum beat, bass line, somebody wiggling around on stage.
However, I can't hold the under 30 set more responsible than the over 30
set. If anything, it's the over 30 set (why is 30 the delineation?) that ought
to know better. Why doesn't Brian have a larger following from my age group? We
came up with better music IMHO, but today, everything on the radio is formatted.
In the late 60s early 70s, you had DJs on progressive stations who were allowed
to pick what they played, and they researched and listened to obscure bands and
they had the power to make a band famous. How much independence do DJs have
today? Young people are at the mercy of what the industry offers them.
As for why more young people don't like the BBs, well I'd like to ask
them. We've had some young posters talk about how they became fans and how their
friends think they're crazy. I'd like an analysis of it. What about the BBs/BW
do you not like? What does the music say to you that turns you off? If the
average kid out there thinks that Mike Love represents Brian's body of work,
well, that's part of the problem.
Also, Brian is rarely macho. A
boy/young man who is using music to help him express and learn about his
maleness, as it is defined and marketed today, is going to dismiss Brian's music
as sweet, in the sickly, insipid sense without really LISTENING. (By the way, it
drives me crazy when people talk about Brian and Burt Bacharach in the same
breath. They are light years apart.)
Brian is rare. He's just a rare
being. His music is rare. Just some of us get it. Seems like maybe the whole
western paradigm would have to fall for the average person to get it.
By Jeff on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 11:28
am:
We're talking about great
art that is at odds with most people's socially-constructed reality and is
therefore, perhaps, frightening.
Could it be that Brian Wilson's music
is unintentionally subversive?
I have more thoughts on this, but I can't
seem to get them down correctly. I keep writing paragraphs and deleting them.
Dang it!
Maybe the music is just too pure.
By new executive on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 12:07
pm:
I am not sure what post you are referring to on the Pet
Sounds board, but nonethelss, I didn't mean to argue with you.
I am preety
impressed though that I got you to blush for me. Smiley smile, here.
By Jeanne on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 04:41
pm:
I was perfectly serious. Look at the Western
Paradigm: man as the crown of creation, woman second best, the earth subdued,
materialism, competition, linear time and logic. Sound like Brian?
Or
turn it around, maybe if enough people listened and HEARD the music, it would
all fall down.
I think you said it fine, great art IS subversive. And I
agree about the fear factor. Brian is open, honest and vulnerable. People
tighten their hearts against those emotions; we're all so jaded and
sophisticated. It's hard to say, I've been typing and deleting myself.
But unintentional? I wonder. I'd really like to talk to him. Yeah, talk
philosophy with Brian!
By Jeanne on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 04:53
pm:
Actually it's the second time you made me blush. How
could you forget that post? You men are so cavalier.
By Jeff on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 08:53
pm:
Here's why I say
the subversive element is unintentional: Standard rock and roll is so
predictably "subversive" and it's that surface level of rebellion that so many
people seem to respond to. With Brian's music, it seems to me, there's very
little that is contrived or self-conscious. It's like it comes straight through
him from the cosmos. I think it's the lack of *intentional* subversion that
makes his music so incredibly powerful. It's just the real thing.
I
don't know, just a hypothesis.
What do you think?
Anyhow, happy
holidays to you and everybody else out there!
By new executive on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 08:22
am:
You mean that I made you blush the first time merely by
calling you sweet for helping me navaigate back to this board?
Wow, you are
a very responsive woman and I must tell you, I am quite impressed with that --
really I am!
And yes, I do respecfully disagree with your opinion of Shania
Twain. Howver, I would never -- even for a minute -- put her on musical par with
Brian. That would be sacralegious for me.
But, I understand whre you are
coming from on this issue. Plus, you have a lot of spunk in your delivery.
By Jeanne on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 04:24
pm:
But at another level there is
inspiration. There's been some talk on the board about Brian's muse. "Straight
through him from the cosmos" makes sense to me. And what's that expression? The
sum is bigger than the parts. Brian is truly the Master.
Interesting
points about subversion. Here's some thoughts: I think music really did used to
be subversive, but it's been co-opted now and only seems to want to push the
boundaries of acceptable public expressions of sexuality. These days you can buy
your rebellion at the Mall. You reach a point where everything that can be said
has been said, and the only thing that is original and viable is Beauty. ( I
just looked up viable in my dictionary, and the first thing it says is "capable
of living…under favorable conditions." It's interesting to think of Brian's
music that way--It's living, alive, as long as we LISTEN) "Beauty is Truth,
Truth Beauty" Cant remember who said, it but it applies to Brian's music. And
from that we can go to "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you
free." Well I could go on forever about the Psycho-delicate Master.
Hey,
I always felt a little bad about my comment about your girlfriend in my first
reply on this thread. Sorry, no disrespect intended, I was in the throes of a
great big gushy response.
And Merry Christmas to you, too, and all
of us!
By Jeanne on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 04:35
pm:
By new executive on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 06:38
pm:
I always
thought that making love with Pet Sounds playing in the background heighened the
experience.
If you haven't already, you should try it. You sound like
someone who'd appreciate the trip.
By Jeanne on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 07:35
pm:
By the way, Don't Worry Baby would need to be
playing also.
By John W.
Proctor on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 01:32 am:
Quoting Christ, eh?
You're holding out on me.
-Linear
Western Patriarchal Dinosaur John
By new executive on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 05:06
am:
Have a Happy Christmas, too!
By Jeanne on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 06:39
am:
Jeanne
By Brian's Sandbox on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 08:38
pm:
By Jeff on Tuesday, December 21, 1999 - 10:40
am:
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty--that is all
Ye know on
earth, and all ye need to know." Wonderful -- that's John Keats from "Ode on a
Grecian Urn." Keats is another artist who had a direct pipeline to the eternal.
What an excellent quote to bring up in a discussion of Brian Wilson's music.
That's also an apt observation about buying rebellion at the mall. It's
almost as if rebellion is no longer possible for kids, like the powers that be
have figured all the angles and whichever way they try to make a statement has
already been figured and marketed. A buddy of mine who is a poet uses the phrase
"generic originality" to descirbe the victims of this phenomena.
Anyway,
I'm sitting here listening to Johnny Cash's tremendous "American Recordings"
album from 8 or 10 years ago with "Friends" coming up next on the cd player. The
real thing to the real thing. What a fine early afternoon in the South!
No offense taken from the early post! If she appreciated the Beach Boys,
my girl would probably be too perfect and vanish in a bright, shimmering glow.
Everything in nature must have a flaw.
Okay, I've waxed on long enough.
"Friends" has just begun and I'm drifting away. . .
By Brother Lee Love on Tuesday, December 21, 1999 -
07:47 pm:
By Aum Bop Diddit on Tuesday, December 21, 1999 - 08:50
pm:
By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 06:39
am:
By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 07:21
am:
I have to laugh at the see-saw conversaton I've been
having recently-from the sublime to the-???? But hope this great thread doesn't
get littered with hecklers.
By Jeff on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 11:01
am:
Yep, a Brian Wilson renaissance would be magnificent.
I'll betcha it could happen if, somehow, enough kids got a whiff of the Pet
Sounds / Smile-era stuff.
I agree that it's tough on the young 'uns now;
it just seems like they're cornered. But youth always finds a way.
Me,
I'm 40, and though it would be cool to be 18 again, I would not trade my salad
days for these.
A question for you, if you don't mind: I've seen posts
where you suggest that you're a new fan, but if you described how you got turned
onto this music, I missed it. You certainly know and understand Brian's music,
seemingly in your bones. What, specifically, made you start listening? For me it
was being 14 or 15 and hanging out at a buddy's house who was a big fan. The
Beach Boys were always on the turntable and for a long time it was just
background music, and then, one day -- WHAM! I finally heard the music and I
haven't stopped listening since.
Perhaps the story of how you started
listening could shed light on the question that got this thread going in the
first place.
(If you've already answered this, feel free to direct me to
the proper thread. Or, if you don't want to answer, feel free to tell me to buzz
off.)
Happy holidays to all!
By Plymouth Rock on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 12:56
pm:
There may well be a BW renaissance; it some ways it's already
happening. (Lots of good media coverage, good tour, decent album out last year,
PS showing up on best of the century lists, etc.) I do think that BW will never
be enormously popular with the 15-30 age group for the simple reason that pop
music thrives as much on image as much as the music itself. The kids listening
to, say, Britney Spears aren't just enjoying the music, they are connecting with
what is packaged for them as Britney's image, lifestyle, etc. By listening to
Britney they are saying, "That's my image, that's my lifestyle". It's a belief
system. The same goes for alternative rock, country, rap, you name it artists:
it's buying into an image. (Of course, the same is true of how Capitol marketed
the BB's back in the early 60's).
I mean, someone who turned 18 this year
was born in 1981. For them, the mid-60's are a long time ago. They also identify
the music from that era with their parents, making it less likely that they are
going to be receptive to that music. I was born in 1959; I now love a lot of the
music from the 40's and 50's but there was no way I was going to listen to that
when I was in high school.
That's why I think it's somewhat sad the BW seems
to be holding on to hope that he will have a big hit at the age of 58 (next
June). How many 58 year olds were denting the charts in 1960, 1970, or 1980? I
would bet, not many. Pop music is only partly about the music, it's in large
sense about image and marketing. I'm not saying that's evil, I'm just saying
that's the way it is.
There will always be younger people getting into BW.
There is just never going to be a critical mass of them, enough to turn it into
a big deal.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!!!
By Jeanne on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 04:28
am:
By Jeff on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 08:39
am:
More to the point, I agree that a "hit" is probably not in Brian's
future at this point. (Though I am not so sure that "South American" wouldn't
have done well on the charts if it had been pushed as a single. Also, I don't
have nearly the problem imagining the Stones or Bowie, for example, producing a
popular song or album.)
What frustrates me is that the people around
Brian and the record company executives don't seem to understand just how
culturally valuable -- and at least marginally commercial -- a full-blown Brian
Wilson project could be.
That said, I do love Imagination and the rest
of his solo projects. But it would be nice if Brian found himself in the proper
psychic space to experiment again on a grand scale & had a distribution
contract which provided him an outlet for his work.
Okay, I'm beginning
to ramble.
Happy holidays!
By Jeanne on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 04:24
pm:
I have at times talked about how I became a fan, but I have
no problem repeating myself! Or elaborating.
But I don't know how much
insight it will provide into why women don't like the BBs as much as men.
I had heard quotes by Paul McCartney and Leonard Bernstein about the
influence of Brian's music, and I was surprised. Like everybody else who knows
no better, I thought the BBs were basically surf music with occasional gems like
GV and GOK. My interest was piqued because my ignorance about music bothers me.
One day last summer I ran into a copy of Wouldn't It Be Nice, misplaced
on the shelf for new books. So I read it and became intrigued with Brian. (I
realize now that the book is not what it seems.)
Next I bought Pet
Sounds, and here my story is like any other new fan's. And brings up the
questions addressed in different ways on different threads: Why is the music so
special? Why do only a few people get it? Why should WIBN and GOK and Don't Talk
have brought me to my knees(figuratively, I was always driving when I was
listening)? Why did I have to pull over the first time I heard Don't worry Baby?
That's the mystery-why the music is so beautiful-even the "surf" tunes
have Brian's unique take on things that lifts them out of the realm of the
ordinary. And why do so few people hear that beauty and why fewer women than
men? (We're assuming from the anecdotal evidence than it is true that more men
than women like the BBs.)
Here's some of my thinking: Some of the guys on
this thread have said it was a guy thing, and originally I rushed to say that It
must be the masculine in me that loved the music. Like I was a guy relating to
guy stuff. On another thread a man said that he thought Brian's muse was
feminine, and that's why it is so seductive. A friend wrote to me that on the
Imagination video Brian states that sometimes he is in touch with the feminine
when he writes. Maybe that's it. Maybe some of Brian's music appeals to the
feminine in men and to the masculine in women. (as well as to the obvious guy
appeal of a lot of it)And since I'm assuming that there are more men with the
"feminine" in them than women with the "masculine' in them(in the same way that
there are more gays than lesbians) then more men than women would be attracted.
Or maybe I am also relating to the "feminine" in his music, if it’s a true type
of femininity, as opposed to the stereotypical, commercial, (to me)femininity I
see in Brittany Spears and her ilk Or maybe everything I just said is a crock!
If men and women were equally attracted to the BBs, these considerations
wouldn’t arise. But there being a greater number of male fans than female fans
has got to have something to do with the fundamental differences between male
and female.
UNLESS, the same is true of all male groups. Are there the
same number of male and female fans of the Stones? REM? No one would be bothered
by the idea that there are more male fans of the Stones than female; it would be
expected. I don't know, my brother-in-law is of the opinion that women simply do
not listen to music as much or need music as much as men. The reason for the
difference between the number of male and female BB fans may just be that
simple. Be nice to see some data on that. (does your girlfriend listen to music
as much as you do?)
As for me, I remember a movie I saw where this
couple are keeping a little stone sculpture in their hotel room. It's about two
inches high. It's worth about $60,000. The hotel maid, who is deaf, steals it.
But she doesn't try to sell it, she puts it on a shelf in her room where she can
see it. When she is caught, the police ask her why she did it(if not for the
money). And this deaf girl writes on a piece of paper: "It spoke to me and I
heard it."
And that's what happened to me.
By Jeanne on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 04:37
pm:
By Wild Honey on Monday,
December 27, 1999 - 09:41 pm:
love that man....love his music.....
i would love to
see a resurgence....his music is VERY worthy of a second "wave" of
popularity....but it might be hard...considering that us "youths" are pounded
with mindless images with NO substance....to expose them to something as
mindblowing as Brian's music.....would...well...they just wouldn't get
it.....i'm all for marketing....as long as they keep his integrity intact! *S*
By Good God on Monday, December 27, 1999 - 09:44
pm:
Resistance is futile. heathen.
Give it a rest.
By carolineno on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 01:30
am:
Caroline
Surf's Up!
By Iain B on
Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 06:53 pm:
Urglie Urglie,
Iain B
By Jeanne on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 07:50
pm:
By Amy Proctor on
Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 08:06 pm:
By NorCalSurfer on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 03:52
am:
By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 07:18
am:
By Another Carl Fan on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 -
09:32 am:
By NorCalSurfer on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 08:12
pm:
p.s. i
really enjoy your posts.
By Jeanne on Thursday, December 30, 1999 - 06:30
pm:
By John W.
Proctor on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 03:16 am:
Some women obviously hear things in the Beach Boys that you don't.
That is not a good/evil issue, but one of art/taste.
There is a real
innocence there that is in more than just the lyrics of "In MY Room" or "When I
Grow Up to Be a Man." Its in the acappella harmonies, the soaring melodies, the
harmless riffing and rhythms, the musical intricacies of Brian's arrangements,
the freshness and color of the basic structure of the songs. Its music that
walks sofly inside your soul, but can also stir up great exuberance and make you
glad you are alive. It arouses no guilt and refuses to intimidate.
The best
thing I can say about it Amy is that I always think of your love when I hear
"Don't Worry, Baby" and the way you have taken care of me over the years. It
never ceases to make me cry, and sometimes it makes me cry just walking down the
street thinking of your innocent love and that sweet melody and those pure
harmonies and how its really true about us. You make me come alive, and make me
start to cry when you say, "Don't Worry, Baby. Everything will turn out
alright..."
Johnny
By Wild Honey
on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 12:57 pm:
urglie
By Jeanne on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 07:01
pm:
By Wild Honey
on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 08:44 pm:
it's
really nice to touch bases like that....i mean....some men i know idolize
Brian....and even go as far as to say they "love" him....not love like an
attraction....but a brotherly love maybe...or like admiration....it's very nice.
*S*
By Jeanne on Tuesday, January 4, 2000 - 05:24
pm:
By Wild Honey
on Tuesday, January 4, 2000 - 07:24 pm:
hehehehe....like a moth to a flame!
By Caldonia on Saturday, January 8, 2000 - 07:15
pm:
By BWFAN on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 09:45
am:
By Johnm on
Friday, January 14, 2000 - 06:07 pm:
Thanks for the interesting response on your 'take' - after
reading your accounts "I want you to have my babies!" I think that there are
precious few of us fans full stop, no matter what sex. I am sure that one day,
Brian's music will be heralded as some of the best out of the 20th century and
open to a wider audience of male and female listeners. Heck, I don't even really
care - it 'spoke' to me when I was 11 years old (18 years ago) and is still the
only music I am at complete peace with. It touches my soul.
John
By Jeanne on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 11:03
am:
By Mark W on
Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 12:52 am:
By Joanna on
Wednesday, February 2, 2000 - 01:22 pm:
A lot of misled rubbish has been spouted on this topic. I think
that BW's music is loved and misunderstood be both men and women. I guess I kind
of understand the stuff about men generally being more into music than women.
But maybe that is because women who write their own songs and arrange and
produce and not encouraged particularly by the commercial market and record
companies. I would argue that there are few positive and true female geniuses in
music leaving female musicians with no role models and a much harder task to get
their efforts noticed.
I am female and love the beach boys. I cannot
find one person who has even heard anything past pet sounds and even fewer who
credit the music as more than amusing bubble gum pop. Still I kind of like
having them all to myself, its a good feeling like I am holding the key to a
real magical secret.
However, For a 19 year old girl who loves the beach
boys, life can get quite lonely.
Women when given the fair chance to
represent themselves in the music industry as something other than a sex symbol,
maybe female interest in music will become deeper and subsequently we will find
more female beach boys fans.
Joanna
By Buckalew on Saturday, February 5, 2000 - 07:09
pm:
By NorCalSurfer on Saturday, February 5, 2000 - 09:43
pm:
By Beach on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 10:51
pm:
By